Bitcoins and Gravy #58 : Mad Potcoins! - (Transcript)

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[0:00] John Barrett (Announcer and Host): Welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy, episode #58. At the time of this recording, Bitcoins are trading at $275.00 [US] dollars, and everybody's favorite coin, the LTBCoin, is trading at $0.000217 U.S. dollars each. Mmm...Mmm...Mmm... Now THAT'S gravy!

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John : Welcome to "Bitcoins and Gravy", and thanks for joining me today as I podcast from East Nashville, Tennessee, with my trusty Siberian Husky, Maxwell, by my side. Say hello Maxwell.

Max : Grrrrr.....

[0:36] John : We're two Bitcoin enthusiasts who love talking about Bitcoins, and sharing what we learn with you the listener. Long time listeners, thanks for hanging in there with me, [and] new listeners, welcome to the show. I hope you enjoy it.

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John : On today's show I am speaking with Hubert, the host of Mad Potcoins : Hubert lives in Denver, where he enjoys legally growing a small crop of marijuana plants for his own enjoyment. Hubert I and talk about everything under the sun including organic growing versus using chemicals and pesticides, the difficulties growers, head shops and dispensaries are having in procuring and keeping bank accounts, and how some of these problems might just be solved by Potcoin ( ), the official coin of the International Cannabis Community!

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[1:34] John : All right listeners. Today, on the show, I am thrilled to welcome Hubert, the guy from Mad Potcoins. Hubert, welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy.

Hubert : Hey! Great to be here.

John : Oh yeah. Now, what's that thing you say at the beginning of your show?

Hubert : So, at the beginning of my show I always start out with, "Good morning, Potcoins!"

John : [laughter]

Hubert : Very similar to Mr. Hunt's "Good morning, Bitcoins!" That's actually where I got the idea from the show. I contacted him directly, and said, "Hey, can I just Ripple-off your show?" He was actually really enthusiastic, and helped me get it started a lot.

John : Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, I love Thomas Hunt. I love his show. And that is so cool that he was so cool about helping you out with your SHOW.

Hubert : Yeah. I literally sent him an email that said, "Can I just Ripple-off your show?"

John : [laughter]

Hubert : And he wrote back, within an hour, and he said, "Absolutely. That would be great." Then he helped me get it started. He got me on World Crypto Network : which my show is syndicated throughout them ALSO, on top of being on my own channel.

[2:38] John : Okay. When was that? How long ago did you start?

Hubert : That was almost a year ago today.

John : Okay, Nice.

Hubert : It was March [of] last year.

John : March of last year. Yeah, that's right around the time Bitcoins and Gravy started. So this is cool.

Hubert : Oh, well a year in "crypto time" is forever.

John : Right. It's like dog years. It's like seven years, right?

Hubert : Yeah. I think that's a pretty adequate analogy, dog years. I'm going to start using that.

John : Oh man. So I have to ask, are you stoned right now?

Hubert : No, I'm not.

John : [laughter] Okay. Because I remember earlier last year - back when Lij was on the show - we had interviewed somebody that had to do with the growing community there in Colorado - and the guy was doing bong hits while we were interviewing him. Which was kind of cool because those bong hits - the bubbling up - was, kind of, a neat effect. But I just wanted to know. I had to ask.

Hubert : Yeah. So I do grow pot, and I am a big enthusiast of it, and I have way more than I can smoke. But I honestly don't smoke that much.

[3:35] John : Hey, that's probably good, you know?

Hubert : I look at it as, when I'm done doing everything else that I HAVE to do, then I'll just get stoned.

John : Exactly.

Hubert : But I've got my priorities first, and I don't think it's fair to put pleasure over duty or obligation.

John : All right. So let's jump right in, man. Tell me about Potcoin, and tell me how this is going to help the marijuana growing industry, and if there's a difference between how it's going to help the recreational marijuana, versus the medical marijuana.

Hubert : Well, I personally don't see much difference between recreational and medical use. I mean, just because somebody wants to do it, or they NEED to do it, I don't really see a reason to have different laws concerning those things.

John : Okay.

Hubert : So in my opinion it should all just be one system of, "Hey, you just should be able to do this if you choose."

John : Right. I agree.

[4:27] Hubert : But as far as Potcoin, [it's] capitalizing on the community aspect that already exists. There is a stoner sub-culture, where any stoner can go to any country in the world and pick out a stoner out of a crowd. That's a subculture that we can easily identify. And that type of subculture is what lends itself to be the perfect breeding ground for a community to embrace a crypto-currency.

John : Let's say that the marijuana community, worldwide, embraces Potcoin . So your thinking is [that] they can use Potcoin basically as their currency.

Hubert : I actually think - and I don't expect to see this in my lifetime - that stoners will be the first decentralized nation that's not dependent on geography, and people [will] voluntarily belong to. And we will have our own currency.

John : Wow! I love that. So, just starting out today with Potcoin, do you think that this is something that soon people could be using to buy and sell marijuana?

[5:31] Hubert : It could very well be really soon. There's a really big thing going on right now with the Colorado "M.E.D." - the Marijuana Enforcement Division :

where the Potcoin team sent them a letter asking for their position on digital currencies. And prior to that there was no position, and I've talked to a lot of dispensary owners that were just afraid to try it, because they weren't explicitly told that they could. So with asking the M.E.D. for their position, then we'll have, at least, a clear answer of, "Can you do it, or not?"

John : I see.

Hubert : Now, they sent that letter last month, and the M.E.D. had 30 days to respond. And pretty much everyone was expecting them to NOT respond. No response would just mean that they have no position. So that would be, kind of, a step in the right direction; they're not explicitly telling you that you CAN'T do it. What happened was actually much more interesting than that. Rather than give a response saying, "No." - or NOT giving a response - they actually said, "Hey, we don't want to mess this up, and we need more information. Can you guys come down here and talk to us more about it, and give us some more time to come up with a position?"

[6:53] John : Wow.

Hubert : So the Potcoin team hired a lawyer, Rachel Gillete :

and she's actually going down there this coming week, on the 11th, to talk to them more about - not just Potcoin or Bitcoin - but the whole concept of digital currencies in general, and how that relates to the M.E.D.'s position on buying and selling pot. Yeah, we should get more guidance on that really soon.

I think just the fact that they're interested in getting more information is a really positive sign. So after that meeting they will have three more weeks. So [at] the end of march, maybe the beginning of April, we should get an official statement of position from the M.E.D. Once they do give that official statement, and if it is positive - which a lot of us are hoping that it will be - that'll widely open up the door for so many of the dispensaries, grow shops, head shops, [and] whatever, to start accepting it, because they know that they can. They won't be afraid that someone is just going to kick in their door and take everything that they have, because they didn't know what they were doing,

[7:57] John : Wow. That is really cool, man. So that's extra incentive for people to listen to Mad Potcoins to find out what's going on with that. I mean, really, that's big stuff, right?

Hubert : Yeah. This is probably the biggest news that has come out in reference to Potcoin since it started -- actually cooperating with the state, and getting their position, and trying to do it right. The developers of Potcoin's goal, the whole time, has been to be the official coin for the LEGAL cannabis industry. There are other coins, like Dopecoin - which I think their goal was specifically for the ILLEGAL industry. And Potcoin - because they want to be legal [and] want to work in the world we live in, not imagine some perfect world that we would wish for - they're taking steps to go about it. I think they're doing a great job so far.

[8:44] John : Wow. That's cool. So I think one of the reasons that Potcoin has emerged - and that this is important for marijuana growers, and dispensaries and all of that - is because it is very difficult if you're a dispensary, or a grower in Colorado, to get a bank account. Isn't it?

Hubert : It's not only difficult to get one, but if you DO manage to get one it's extremely easy for that account to get shut down. Like [with] too many cash deposits within a month, they will just close down your account. And then these dispensaries still have to pay taxes. They're trying to pay taxes with cash, and the state is fining them for paying their taxes with cash. So not only are they paying, but they had to pay more, because they don't even have the access to write a check.

John : Wow. So where does Bitcoin come into this. I mean, what about dispensaries accepting Bitcoin, and just going through Bitpay or Coinbase, or something like that; one of the payment processors for Bitcoin?

[9:40] Hubert : Well that would definitely be on the table if the M.E.D. gave a position on digital currencies in general. Many of them could easily adopt Bitcoin, and I expect that most of them would. Now, the difference with Potcoin [is that] Potcoins are much less valuable than Bitcoins. The transaction fees are very, very much less. Potcoins are some ridiculously small fraction of a penny. So there's the community aspect. Where dispensaries - although they grow most of their own pot - they still have to cooperate with other growers if they're trying to get extra product. Growers have to go to grow stores, and buy supplies, equipment, nutrients, light, [etc.]. And there's so many packaging requirements, [that] there's a whole industry of just proper packaging, with sealed containers, and smell-proof things, and child proof whatevers.

[10:34] John : Hmm.

Hubert : If all of this stuff can use Potcoin between themselves it's going to be awesome.

John : So let me ask you another question. Do you feel that people who are involved in the marijuana movement there in Colorado - in particular, in Denver - do you feel like they are open to digital currencies, open to crypto-currencies, open to Bitcoin, open to Potcoin? Or, for the most part, are they just like your average citizen, [and] that there aren't that many people who know much about it yet?

Hubert : I would say we definitely are normal, regular, average people. And we know, and don't know, just as much as any other normal, average group of people. So no, there's not an overwhelming amount of support, or knowledge, or anything like that. But we're working on it. All of us that are enthusiastic about crypto-currencies, we're talking to everyone about it, because that's what we're enthusiastic about. [11:25] And as the word gets out, more people... A lot of them start out skeptical, and they're like, "Ah, I don't know about this. It sounds like a scam." or, "I don't know anything about. It sounds weird. I don't think it's going to work. Where does it come from?" They have all of these crazy questions, and a lot of people just give up right there. Now the REAL skeptics, they try to answer their own questions. And when they do, they're the ones who turn out to be our biggest enthusiasts.

John : Oh, nice. Yeah, I just realized that the way I asked that question , I referred to "normal people". Are these marihuana people doing things like normal people do? I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

Hubert : No, no. And I didn't take it that way, but I just wanted to point out that YES, we are just normal people doing normal stuff.

John : So this is great stuff, man. I really appreciate the "on the ground" information about Potcoin, [and] about what Potcoin is doing. It looks like Potcoin has a pretty bright future, actually.

[12:16] Hubert : Yeah, and there's a few other marijuana-themed coins. There's a CannabisCoin, Cannacoin, Hempcoin, Dopecoin, MaryJanecoin, and I think maybe another on I'm forgetting. But out of all of those, Potcoin was the first one, it's been around the longest, and objectively - if you look at CoinMarketCap ( ), it's been in the Top 100 since its existence. I think it's about 60th place right now. But it's far ahead of all the other marijuana-themed, or related, coins. Right now, because it is so new, I think [that] if it just survives, then once people are ready it will thrive.

John : Well, a guy named Franky - who's now living in Cambodia - he's the one who turned me onto you, and turned me onto your show, so I've been watching your show, and I've been loving it. It's now, I guess, become one of my favorite shows. Mad Bitcoins, I love. I watch it all the time. He's really good at what he does. I really appreciate what he brings to the space, and I really appreciate what you bring to the space as well.

Hubert : Yeah, I really appreciate his enthusiasm for cryptos in general. It was [people with] his [kind of] enthusiasm that really got me into it in the first place.

[13:26] John : Yeah, that's great. You know, one person encourages another one, or inspires another one. Now, what got you involved in Potcoin?

Hubert : So I got involved in Potcoin very shortly after I had first heard of Bitcoin. So the first time I ever heard of Bitcoin was when Mr. Antonopoulos was on Joe Rogan's podcast in January of last year. It was right at the end of January

John : Yeah, I watched that.

Hubert : And that was the first time I had ever heard of it. And man, Andreas is one of the greatest speakers I've ever heard. Every single sentence he says just blows my mind. I was instantly hooked, addicted, obsessed - whatever you want to call it. And I just started researching, reading learning, looking up everything that I possibly could. Then I found out, by the second day I was into Bitcoin, "Oh wait a minute! There's like a few hundred OTHER coins," And I started looking into those. A week later I found Potcoin - which Potcoin was only two weeks old at the time, it was extremely new. I got into it because I've been into the stoner community for a long time. I've been growing for a long time. I've been advocating legality for a long time. So that was just one that I felt like I could identify with, that I chose to believe in, and a month into getting obsessed with Potcoin I said, "Hey, I'm going to just start doing a show." I don't have any computer knowledge. I don't know how to program. I figured [that] I wanted to help in some way, and that was the only way that I saw possible for me to do with what limited knowledge I had.

[15:12] John : Well, you know, that's what Andreas says. He says, "Find something that you're good at, that you can do. Whether it's coding, or doing a podcast, or whatever it is. And ask people to send you Bitcoin for it. Ask people to give you Bitcoin for it. And you can, at some point, hopefully make a living doing it." So, I'm working on trying to build my numbers up with my show. At one point I had like 10,000 listeners a week, which is pretty darn good. You know, I owe a lot of that to Adam B. Levine, who started the Let's Talk Bitcoin Network, [and] who chose this show in his contest, as the editor's choice. So doing it on my own, I never could have had these kind of numbers. But even with these kind of numbers, I'm STILL not getting people who are interested in advertising on my show, which is pretty sad if you think about it, right? But I think part of that is because the Bitcoin price is down now. I think [that] when the Bitcoin price really starts going up - coming soon I hope - I think the advertisers are going to come out of the woodwork. They're going to call you and say, "Hey Hubert, we want to advertise on your show." They're going to call me and say, "John, I want to advertise on your show." I don't know. Part of it, for me, is that I'm not very proactive about that. People who are proactive, and really push, tend to do better. Maybe you already have advertisers. I have no idea.

[16:22] Hubert : No, I don't. My show is completely donation only. I have my QR codes for a couple of the coins that I believe in. I've got, obviously, Potcoin - since that's what the show is about - Bitcoin, Litecoin, Darkcoin and Dogecoin. Those are the ones that I personally feel have the most potential, and I have gotten a few donations, which I was really impressed with. So I'm doing it because I'm genuinely enthusiastic about it, and overall I'm definitely at a loss. I spent $250 on buying a camera, just so I could make the show, and in a year I've gotten almost $200 worth of donations.

John : Nice. [laughter]

Hubert : So, I'm still at a net negative, and I'm definitely NOT doing it for the money. I'm not particularly interested in advertising. It's just fun to me. It's my hobby. It's a passion. And it's just fun. It is the end in itself. It's not the means to an end, for me personally.

[17:20] John : Yeah, for me, because I have two jobs that keep me really busy during the week, and because I really DISLIKE one of those jobs a great deal. I am researcher, and I've been doing it for 16 years, and I really would love to quit it, but I can't quit it. I would love to be able to, not just supplement my income doing the podcast, [but] I would love to be able to quit the job that I hate, and do something that I love; do this full time. That's my dream, but I'm completely sympathetic to anybody who's doing this just out of pure love. And why do I keep doing it? Well, for me it's really dual, out of pure love for the space - I mean, really I'm addicted now. I can't stop. There's no way I could stop, even if I knew, moving forward, I would never make a dime at it, I can't stop. I mean, how can you stop when you're in it, right?

[18:08] Hubert : Yeah, there's no going back. Once you open your eyes, and you've seen the possibilities of what crypto-currencies can do, you can't un-see that. You can't be un-excited about that. Once it clicks in your head, and once you get it, there is no going back.

John : Exactly. It's like Neo in The Matrix. He had the thought, "Nah, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole." but then he knew he had to, right?

Hubert : He had to.

John : He had to. [laughter] . Oh, that's so funny man. I love it. It's just so unbelievably true. So you believe in those other coins. Are you also invested in those other coins : Litecoin, Dogecoin, Darkcoin?

Hubert : Yeah. I do have holdings in a couple of them. I've got a couple of Litecoins. I actually just traded a bunch of Litecoins a few weeks ago, when they were still one-to-one with Darkcoin. That turned out to be a great move for me, because Darkcoins are almost double what Litecoins are right now.

John : Oh wow! I didn't know that. That's great.

Hubert : So that was a pretty good move on my part - which I've done plenty of bad moves too, and I've lost.

John : [laughter]

[19:08] Hubert : I bought a bunch of Dogecoin when they started going up in November, [and] then they went down by a lot. So it's all just speculating. It's having fun. It's playing. And I'm definitely not playing with anything I'm not willing to lose.

John : So Hubert, let me ask you about alt-coins in general. Now there are what? Hundreds of alt-coins, hundreds of crypto-currencies? What's your feeling about crypto-currencies? I know that you have your favorites, and some that you believe in. And I'm sure you believe in some of those because they have utility, [and] they actually offer interesting use cases, right? But what do you feel about the majority of them?

Hubert : I think that the majority are definitely just going to fail. [laughter] I don't see it possible that 1000+ coins are going to work out. It just doesn't seem likely or realistic. I do think there is definite potential for more than a few of them, and my main basis of thinking that is I honestly believe that Bitcoins will be like "through the roof" valuable, possible a trillion per Bitcoin. Maybe not in my lifetime, but at some point.

[20:19] John : Yeah.

Hubert : They're just going to be too valuable. And even if they lower the transaction fees to a Satoshi, even the transaction fees are just going to be too much once it gets too valuable. Certain ones like Litecoin, that's a really good lower value coin to do regular transactions. So I think a lot of them will find their markets based on their price. Like Litecoin, it may be $5, it may be $20, but I don't think they're going to go in the hundreds. Whereas if Bitcoins are in the hundreds, thousands, millions, it's going to be great long term store of value, but it's going to be horrible for daily transactions.

John : Right. That's a really good point. So let me ask, what do you think about what's going on in the rest of the world, as far as the economy goes? What's your feeling about Greece and all of that? Not to get specific about Greece, but just do you have any opinions about what's going on in the world - Europe and all of that?

[21:16] Hubert : Yeah. I think that central banks are really the ones controlling the world. Most governments - I don't know if people just have these crazy misconceptions- governments do not have the power to create money, and they don't do that. But the central banks do. So once you took away the power from the government to create money, and government didn't have power over money, then everything flipped, and now the money controls the government, And who controls the money? The central banks. So they really are the ones who own and operate the government, by default.

John : Yeah, what I keep wondering is, okay, you look at China. You look at Russia. You look at all these different countries that are in complete disagreement with each other, often times, to the point where it looks like, "Hey, we might be looking at World War III coming up." But I'm wondering, "Are these central bankers somehow communicating with each other in a way which is manipulating these countries, manipulating these governments, and these people, and these militaries, to do this and that so that they profit, or so that they destroy countries and then are able to have greater control?" That's something that makes me wonder, because no one really talks about that.

[22:23] Hubert : Yeah. I would think - I mean, I have no way to prove this, or back it up with anything - but I would think that they absolutely have to be communicating. And there has to be manipulation on a grand scale. I mean - although I can't explicitly prove it - just everything that I see seems like it adds up to that.

John : Yeah. I seems like it to me too, man.

Hubert : And one of the things too is [that] truth is always simple. That is a fundamental tenant of truth, that it is simple. So once you start getting into crazy, complicated, weird obfuscated - whatever - statements, you can be pretty sure that they're not true; that someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes; someone is trying to manipulate you by making you NOT understand something. And the only reason you wouldn't understand is because it's a lie, because they're trying to fool you. They're trying to trick you. So the more complicated something is, the more likely I think it is some manipulative lie, because all truth comes down to, "It's just simple."

[23:27] John : So tell me about Colorado. Are you originally from Colorado?

Hubert : No, I've only been here for two years now. I'm originally from Chicago, but I moved around quite a bit. I lived in Missouri, and Texas, and Europe for a while, and I can say that out of every place I've ever been on earth so far, Colorado is my favorite.

John : Are you in Denver?

Hubert : I'm in the Denver metro area.

John : Okay, nice. What's your weather like there now?

Hubert : Let's see. Today it is 42 degrees, and most of the snow and ice is melting.

John : Oh wow. We had a snowstorm last night. We had freezing ice, and then we had three or four inches of snow, which is very unusual, and we had that a couple of weeks back. But okay, so Denver. I've never been to Denver. I don't think I've ever been to Colorado, but I've always wanted to go to Colorado, and Denver sounds just great. So you have this massive community there - and this massive economy now - that's built up around marijuana, right?

[24:25] Hubert : Yeah. That is probably the largest growing industry right now, at least here.

John : You know, you think of Colorado and you picture mountains and snow, and it's like, "How are these people growing? Is it all indoors?"

Hubert : The very vast majority of it IS all indoor. And that's for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons - and this is I think the biggest one - when you grow indoor, you're much less worried about pests, which means you don't need pesticides. And to me, that's a really huge factor. Like, I would never use pesticides on anything that I plan on ingesting. So that's a pretty big factor. Also, controlling your conditions is very much easier inside. And consistent conditions produce consistent results. And people here - because it's legal - they have an expectation for their product, and you can ONLY create that with consistent conditions.

[25:22] John : Nice. So, if you're growing hydroponically, you can control the temperature of the water. You can control the Ph. You can control the air quality in that room. You can control the light. You can get your plants to flower whenever you want them to, by making them believe that, "Hey, it's that time of the year." right?

Hubert : Right. Absolutely. And the more controls you have over the environment, and the more you know which strains like which conditions, the better you can get them to their peek potential.

John : I love it. Now, are you growing hydroponically?

Hubert : Yeah. I actually have a hydro/aeroponic system that I made up myself. So it's halfway in between hydroponic and aeroponic.

John : Oh that's sweet, man! I wish I could see a picture of it, [and] I could have it on Let's Talk Bitcoin. So what nutrients are you using. Are you using nutrients that you buy in a store? And if so, how do you know that those nutrients aren't from some bad chemical source.

[26:14] Hubert : All right. So, I don't recommend anyone ever do this. This is a horrible, bad, stupid idea - and I want to put that disclaimer out there - but I do this. And I know it's a horrible, stupid, bad idea, but I still do it. [It's] all of the nutrients that I feed my plants, I will drink them first.

John : Wow.

Hubert : And no, you should never do that, but that is my guarantee that it is non-toxic, and safe for human consumption. And yeah, I'm kind of a nutball. I know that that's crazy, and I don't recommend anybody ever do it, but that is what I personally do.

John : As the host of Bitcoins and Gravy I have to say, "Folks, we are not advocating drinking the chemicals and the nutrients that you use for growing marijuana. DO NOT drink the nutrients and the liquids that you use for growing marijuana."

Hubert : Yeah, I am specifically saying that I know it is wrong and no one should do that.

[27:12] John : Now where are you getting these nutrients from, and what do they say are the sources of these?

Hubert : Well there are literally grow stores every other block. They're just everywhere. There's a couple of grow stores that I go to. In fact, I usually try to go to different ones as often as possible, just so I can ask them if they take Potcoin yet. And when they say no - and I know they obviously will - then I take that as my opportunity to go into a 10 to 20 minute spiel about, "Hey, here's what crypto-currency is. And here's why you should get into it."

John : Nice.

Hubert : And so yeah, I just use that as my excuse. So I always try to go shopping at different stores every time. The nutrient line that I like the most is called Cutting Edge Solutions. They do a three part (or more) system where you have your NPK parts and you mix up the proportions yourself, so that way you can change your ratios. They have general recommended ones, but I take a lot of notes, and I find that certain strains like certain different ratios compared to others. So, I like the ability to mix up my own ratios.

[28:27] John : Okay, and that NPK, that's Nitrogen, and Phosphorus, and Potassium?

Hubert : Yup. That is correct.

John : And now, do you use two different bulbs for the two different times of year, representing when they're growing, and then when they're flowering?

Hubert : I would like to, but I don't. I just have HPS - High Pressure Sodium - and that's good for all around. Metal Halide - or MH - is definitely better for veg. But, man, light bulbs are expensive.

John : Yeah. They really are.

Hubert : And I don't have much going on. I'm using 600 Watts, but an average price for a light bulb is $70 to $150.

John : Yeah, yeah. That's expensive. And they don't last forever, obviously. It's not just a one-time buy, right?

Hubert : Right, yeah. I mean, they will last longer than their efficiency. So if they're producing, let's say, an amount of lumens - which I don't want to start making up numbers, because I don't know right now. But if they're producing "this amount" when it's brand new, within a couple of months, that amount will be degraded. It will be a few percent less. So I change my bulb about every six months.

[29:34] John : I see.

Hubert : It still works. It didn't burn out. But it's just not the full intensity of it being brand new.

John : I see. Years ago I worked at a place called "Urban Ore", there in Berkeley, California. I remember after work going to these grow stores that offered hydroponic supplies, and lighting and everything. I remember talking to this old guy that was in there one time. And you know, the people who worked in there couldn't, at the time, talk to you about marijuana. You had to say, "So I'm growing tomatoes. I want to find out what's the best thing... " And this old guy that as in there, he said, "Let me give you a hint, kid..." He said, "Grow ‘em to 12 inches. No more. And then start flowering right then." So his idea was [to] just grow them to 12 inches, and then when you go into the flowering phase they're going to double, or more, in size. And you're going to have these final plants that are basically 24 to 30 inches, let's say. And there's going to be one big, nice - or two big, nice - colas moving up there - Oh, my gosh! I almost sound like I know what I'm talking about. This could be bad for my show. This could be incriminating.

[30:36] Hubert : [laughter] You DEFINTELY sound like you know what you're talking about. But it also depends on your environment. I live in a small apartment. I have a little tent. It's a 4 by 4 by 6 foot tall grow tent, and so I don't have enough space to do that many plants. So since I only do three plants at a time, I grow them as big as they can get. Now if I wasn't restricted on a limit of plants I would much prefer to grow many more SMALLER plants, but you do what you can with what you have, and with the restrictions that you're given too.

John : Yeah, that's really true. I do have to confess. I did used to grow. I had a very small hydroponic system in my closet, there is San Francisco. I had my hair down to the middle of my back. I wore a cowboy hat and an army jacket everywhere, and I drove my grandfather's - he'd passed away and left me this 1972 Ford LTD, baby blue. It was the same car that Michael Douglas and Karl Malden drove in "The Streets of San Francisco" [laughter] . Ironically, it was the police car without the police engine. I believe it had a 302 in it.

[31:40] But man, San Francisco was very forgiving at that time about marijuana. I remember being down there by the BART station - Bay Area Rapid Transit - in the Mission, and seeing this cop - this woman cop - walk up to this guy, this hippy kid [laughter] , and take a joint out of his mouth, throw it on the ground and crush it. She walked away and then he picked up what was remaining, but that's as much trouble as he got in. So, I'm in Tennessee, [and] I very rarely smoke the "peace pipe" anymore. But even if I did, I would never dream of growing marijuana in Tennessee. I mean, that's just insane, because of the trouble you can get into, right? I mean, in Colorado, [and] now in D.C., it's no big deal, really, as long as you're staying within the boundaries of the law, right?

Hubert : Right. The limits here, for personal use, I can grow up to six plants, but only three of which can be budding. So, since I don't have that much space, I cut it down to just three. I bud them all at the same time. And yeah, I'm working within the restrictions that I have. If I didn't have that restriction, or if there was a HIGHER limit, I would very much prefer to grow many more, but smaller, plants.

[32:50] John : Yes. I knew a guy one time [who] has this long hallway, and he had his light system on a chain that would move automatically, slowly from one end to the other. So he was able to provide light for this massively long hallway of plants just using one light, which I thought was a really slick system. Now, of course, each plant is not going to get as much light as if each light stayed stationary above. But I thought that was awfully creative for the space that he had.

Hubert : Yeah, a lot people actually do that just to simulate the movement of the sun in the sky, and they feel like it strengthens the stems of their plants by making them bend to follow the light. One of the things most people neglect to realize is that plants breathe. Plants breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. So respiration is different from photosynthesis. And when they do photosynthesis they take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen. But at night, they're not producing any oxygen - they're consuming it. And if your air is not moving, you get these little dead pockets, around the weeds, of stuff they can't breathe anymore.

[33:55] John : Wow. That's something that I had not learned. I do remember learning that you look at your buds, and you've got these little crystals on there. And you can scrape that off, and when they harvest that's the kief, right? It gets on their hands, and they scrape that off, and they make hash from that, right? But then to get to the microscopic level, these things are little stems that have a little head. They're called something like Capitated Stalked Tricomes, or something like that. [laughter]

Hubert : Yup. That is exactly what they're called.

John : So you see these little crystals on the buds, [and] you're like, "Oh, dude!" It's so sweet to see those crystals on there. And it's like, "Well those are actually capitated stalked tricomes", right? [laughter]

Hubert : Yeah, and so this is something that I just learned very recently about the molecular nature of hash, is [that] the stalks are garbage. The stalks of them, they LOOK impressive, but they're complete garbage. There's no TCH content to them. It's just the heads, themselves, that have the TCH, the CBD, CBN,CBA - all the active ingredients. And on top of that, the terpenes, which are the aromatics, or the flavor -

[35:04] John : Ah, terpenes...

Hubert : -- of the smell chart. And it's just the heads. And now that concentrates and extracts are getting really popular here, people are realizing that stuff they thought was good hash a couple of years ago is actually garbage compared to what we have now, in terms of purity.

John : Wow. But on that microscopic level, when you're handling weed, and you're scraping it off your hands in a foreign country - or wherever you do it - there's no way to remove the stalks.

Hubert : Well, the way that they most popularly do it here now is through chemical extraction, using either butane, or liquid carbon dioxide, or some other chemicals. And they literally dissolve it, and then strain it through, evaporate off their solvent, and what's left is supposedly pure THC with some terpenes. And those processes just keep getting better. At the same time they keep getting worse too. I think it was just last week here I heard about some kids started their garage on fire trying to make butane hash oil, because they were doing stupid things in a stupid way. I fully believe [that] if you're going to do stupid things, you better be even smarter about them.

[36:13] John : Absolutely. Trying to distill anything, or trying to use volatile chemicals for anything is really not a good idea, unless - I mean, you've got to be intelligent enough to set it up like a lab situation. People really need to be careful with stuff like that. You know, I envision a future where we use nanotechnology - and I'm just picturing the nano-harvesting tractors, and whatnot, that are there on the buds, that are going around and just harvesting the heads. [laughter]

Hubert : That sounds amazing. I'm instantly getting this visual, and that sounds like the most amazing thing I've ever heard anyone say.

John : [laughter] Dude, someone needs to make a movie of that, and make it look completely real. Maybe it's an air vehicle that flies through and just grabs the heads off the stalks, man. That would be so cool.

Hubert : Yeah, the movie I'm imagining would probably be a Pixar film, and that would just be the background. [laughter] But there would be 3D animated characters that live on these buds, that it would really be about.

[37:07] John : I love that, man. It's like "Horton Hears A Who", meets Pixar, meets Mad Potcoins.

Hubert : Yes.

John : A Mad Potcoin production.

Hubert : Oh, if I could produce that, I would.

John : Oh man, I totally would too.

John : So, what do you think of the future of Mad Potcoins? Where do you plan to take the show?

Hubert : So, I've got to say I don't have a whole lot of direction. I'm just doing what I'm doing. I'm going to try and continuously improve, but basically I'm taking my cues from what's going on. I'm reporting what's been going on for the week, and that, kind of, determines the pace.

John : Okay. And what kind of feedback are you getting from your fans? I'm sure you've got some loyal fans now, having done it for a year. And I'm sure people are loving the show, right?

Hubert : So, the greatest feedback that I've gotten so far was, three weeks ago I got a donation of 73,995 Potcoins, which at the time was worth 100 federal reserve notes.

John : Nice. Oh, sweet!

[38:09] Hubert : So that was my best feedback. But I get people that challenge points that I've made, which I think is great. And I'm wrong about a lot of stuff a lot of the time, and I have no problem admitting that. If people can bring to my attention how I was wrong, I'm better for it. So that's my favorite feedback to get, is when people tell me I'm wrong.

John : Yeah.

Hubert : I get some that people are like, "Oh hey, that's a good point." Or, "I like this." And that's nice to here, but - I don't know, maybe I'm a sadist or something, but I just like it when people tell me I'm wrong. Like if someone's coming up with a criticism, and I can counter it, well that just makes my position even MORE valid.

John : Absolutely, man. So let's talk about marijuana there is Colorado. You said most people are growing hydroponically, for the reasons that you gave. Do you think that some people are growing weed using pesticides and bad chemical and all of that?

[39:03] Hubert : Yes. I absolutely think that there ARE people who are still doing that. And those are the people who do it for profit. It's not personal. I take it as a hobby. It's very personal to me. I take it very seriously. I want the absolute best quality that I can attain. And I do a lot of things that cut down on my quantity. Like, I do a lot of little tricks that actually result in SMALLER yields, but just of higher quality. Other people do the complete opposite. It's not for them. It's not personal. They don't care. It's just a job, or whatever, and they will sacrifice quality for quantity. And sometimes that means using certain nutrients or chemicals that I wouldn't use. Sometimes that means using pesticides. Sometimes that means harvesting early, when it's not even mature. Or it means a lot of different things to different people, depending on their situation.

[40:00] John : Yeah, that's a little bit scary. That could almost be an argument - someone would say, "This is the bad thing about legalizing marijuana. When you get the big players in there, all they can think about is profit." Years ago, when I was a kid growing up, people said, "Well, when they legalize marijuana, Phillip Morris - and all of these big tobacco companies - are going to get in on it." The rumors have always been, "They already have their packaging made." And I'm saying back in the ‘70s, these were the rumors, "They already have the packages of the marijuana cigarettes - the joints that they'll have packaged. " And the argument then is that they'll just be doing this for profit, and nothing else, and so what will they do? They'll do the same thing they've done with tobacco, [which] is [to] start adding mystery chemicals to it, right? They get you more addicted. Who knows? Maybe they''ll be adding synthetic nicotine. Who knows what they could be adding. So it's almost an argument AGAINST legalization. You know what I mean?

Hubert : I agree with that completely. I think that legalization has taken a turn in the wrong direction, and I think that the way it's going it IS going to lead to that. Where even right now, okay it's legal, sure. That's one thing to say. It's another thing in the practical reality of it. Because before it was simple : you just can't have pot, you can't grow it, you can't sell it, you can't smoke it, [you] can't do anything. It's all just illegal.

[41:17] John : Right.

Hubert : Whatever you do, you better do it under cover of dark, under the table, [or] whatever. Now it's like, "Oh, well hey. You need to pay the state to ask for permission to get these licenses, and if you can't afford to do that, then you can't do it." And it's pretty much setting up a system that's going to eliminate the possibility of competition, it's going to eliminate newcomers, and it's going to strengthen monopolies. And it WILL be R.J. Reynolds and Phillip Morris that are going to take it over and start pouring formaldehyde, and bleach, and whatever else they want into it. And I think that IS going to be the result of legalization. I was actually really disappointed. I thought legalization would mean MORE freedom, and it turned out [that] I was completely wrong. It means more rules and more restrictions.

[42:03] John : Well, it's really scary. It's like when governments try to say to small, organic farms, "Well, no, you can't do this until you meet these government requirements." And they're saying, "Look, we're growing organically."... "Ah, ah, ah. You've got to PROVE that to us, because we're watching out for the safety of society. We've got to make sure that you're doing everything that we TELL you to do on this organic farm, to make sure that you live up to OUR standards." When the - in quotation marks - "OUR standards" are [laughter] the monoculture of growing massive amounts of the same crop, destroying land, pesticides that are harming the honeybees, doing irreparable damage to ecosystems.

So now that same thing, [and] what if it came down to more stringent laws. Here's 2020, "Okay, well now if you want to grow, [and] you want to be a small grower, you can grow 20 plants, but you've got to abide by these new rules. You've got to use these specific chemicals, that are made by Monsanto. And we're going to test to make sure..." You know what I'm saying? It could be really scary.

[43:09] Hubert : Yeah. And then the opposite happens too. Like what you were saying, organic farmers have to go through all this nightmare of compliance, whereas on the opposite side, Monsanto is getting subsidies to grow GMOs. They're literally getting paid to do something that's already profitable, making double the amount of profit, and that's only going to strengthen the monopoly and KICK OUT competition.

John : Yeah. It's so easy for these corporations to say, "The reason that our primary objective is profit is for our stockholders. We're beholden to our stockholders, and that's what we're obligated to do - not just morally, but legally ." Right? For me, that's such a lame argument when I hear that. But bad how could it get? My question to you, or to anybody is, "Is it really just the profit motive that is motivating these companies to do things that the majority of us know are really bad?" Or is there some underlying, or some additional, or some OTHER agenda that they have in terms of making people sicker? Making people unhealthy? What do you think, man?

[44:16] Hubert : Well, making people UNHEALTHY is really great for the health industry. You know? The health industry wouldn't exist if people WERE healthy. So yeah, there are a lot of hidden motives. That COULD be the case. I don't know that they are. I don't WANT to believe that it is, but I can't say that it's not.

John : Right. And you bring that up to people and they say, "Are you kidding me? That means that Monsanto would have to be colluding with McDonald's, and they would together have to be colluding with the health maintenance organizations, who would have to be colluding with the insurance companies..." And I'm thinking, "This is a whole world of crazy men, throughout history, who have killed their enemies; who have committed atrocities in the name of profit. So, why ISN'T this possible?"

[45:08] I think that colluding, and that conspiring - when people get together and they conspire to do something for profit, or something that's bad - I think that's actually something that's been going on quite regularly on planet earth since the written records that we have.

Hubert : It definitely SEEMS to be the case. And again, you can't really prove it, but it definitely SEEMS to be the case. I think that's what the whole legalization thing is doing. It's just giving us this little illusion that, "Oh, we're this little bit more free!" But no, we're not. It's just that we're more profitable now to the "powers that be", or otherwise known as "the powers that SHOULDN'T be."

Hubert : Nice man. [laughter] I love that. Okay, so what can small marijuana growers - like yourself, or people who are doing it for profit, but who are doing it right; who are not using pesticides, and who are growing a high-quality product - what can these people do? How can they assure their customers, or their friends, [or] their community. How can they assure them that, "Hey, we are NOT doing what these for-profit-only [jumokes?] over here are doing. We'r e NOT using pesticides. We're NOT using bad chemicals. We're doing things right. We're growing a good strain. We're growing a good product. We know how to dry it. We know how to package it." How can these small guys, who are doing it right, assure other people that they are different from the guys who are doing it wrong - the bad players?

[46:37] Hubert : So I think it's actually pretty easy, and you said it right in your question. Their customers ARE their friends, and their community. They're people you know personally. Like, I don't know anybody from Phillip Morris or R.J. Reynolds, so why should I trust their cigarettes? Just because they're a big company? But if I'm going to buy pot from somebody, I ‘m going to ask them how they grew it. I'm going to be interested, and I want to know them personally. I always support local business over anything corporate. It just comes down to the community, and trust, and being around. And if they're small scale, they don't NEED to have customers in other states or other countries. It all stays in the community, and that's where trust is developed.

[47:24] John : Yeah, I love that. And so using that model, somebody like you - or WHOEVER - can start building a strong reputation, and then if they never sell out - to Phillip Morris, or whoever comes along - and they continue to build that reputation up, they could be known as a trustworthy grower who's growing a good, safe product, right?

Hubert : Right. They become an authority based on credibility, instead of an authority based on monopoly, or force, or violence.

John : I love it, man. Wow, [applause] I'm applauding right now. That is great stuff. Well, Hubert, this has been a fantastic opportunity for me to learn some things, and to think about some things I didn't know prior to talking with you. And I know for a fact that my listeners are going to concur with that statement. Listeners, you have been listening to Hubert, the host of Mad Potcoins. Hubert, can you tell our listeners the best way that they can find you and find your show?

[48:23] Hubert : So my show is on YouTube. You can just search "Mad Potcoins" for my channel. Or, it's also syndicated through the World Crypto Network, which has a whole bunch of great Bitcoin and crypto-currency related shows. And also, on Twitter, I am @MadPotcoins ( ).

John : All right, great. Ladies and gentlemen, you have been listening to Hubert, the host of Mad Potcoins, here on Bitcoins and Gravy. Tune in to Hubert and you will not only learn a lot about things you are interested in, but you will also be entertained, because it is a very, very entertaining show. Hey Hubert, thank you so much for being on the show.

Hubert : Hey, thanks a lot, and one last thing. The show comes out every Sunday at about noon. And yeah, this was a great conversation, and I had a great time talking to you.

John : Hey I did to, man. Give us your standard closing line, would you?

Hubert : "That's it for this edition of Mad Potcoins, and smoke ‘em if you've got ‘em."

John : I love it man. Thanks Hubert.

[49:21] Hubert : Yup. Talk to your later. Out.

[music and lyrics to "Ode to Satoshi" song]

John Barrett : Now climb aboard y'all! This train is bound for glory... and there's plenty of room for all...

"Well Satoshi Nakamoto, that's a name I love to say, And we don't know much about him, but he came to save the day. When he wrote about the way things are, And the way things ought to be, He gave us all a protocol this world had never seen.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna' reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[guitar instrumental]

Down the road it will be told about the Death of Old Mt. Gox, About traders trading alter coins, and miners mining blocks. But them good old boys back in Illinois, And on down through Tennessee, See they don't care to be a millionaire, They're just wanting to be free.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna' reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[50:37] [instrumental interlude]

From the ghettos of Calcutta, to the halls of Parliament, While the bankers count our money out for every government. Oh, Bitcoin flies on through the skies of virtuality, A promise to deliver us from age-old tyranny.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna' reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name. Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your -- "Give me some Exposure" -- Everybody knows your name.

Singing, Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord, before I have to go. Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord . . . before I have to . . . Go . . .

[instrumental finale] [applause]

[52:09] John : Oh-ho! Thank you East Nashville! Y'all be good to each other out there, ya' hear?

[Segway music]

John : And coming soon you'll be able to find full transcripts of each episode of Bitcoins and Gravy, in the "transcripts" section of ( ). Yes, professional transcription is [being] provided by one of our fans who can be found at :

Look for this in the show notes. More on this in a few weeks, and thanks for your patience, friends.

[53:01] Exciting news, listeners! The other day I was surfing the net, looking for a good barbecue sauce. For some reason I had a case of the munchies, and the melancholies, at the same time. I had the idea of making meatloaf, which I hadn't made in years, and I guess it started with my reminiscing about my grandmother Eleanor's meatloaf, and how wonderful it was. Sadly, no one has ANY of her recipes, and she has gone to the great kitchen in the sky. Bless her soul. But I certainly remember how delicious her meatloaf was, and I recall that it almost had a breakfast sausage taste, almost too good to be true. So I have to assume that she used something like Jimmy Dean's, or some other breakfast sausage, along with the ground beef. Anyway, as I surfer along, nothing was really catching my eye. But then, by chance, I landed on a page advertising barbecue sauce for Bitcoin, and BAM! There it was, staring me in the face - Joe Perry's "Rock Your World" hot sauces ( ). Yes, the same Joe Perry who played lead guitar for the great band Aerosmith, and who, of course, also sang some of the lead vocals.

[54:06] I was ecstatic, and so I ordered some. I took out my phone. I opened my MyCelium wallet ( , and once again - BAM! - my order was completed in under two minutes. I also wrote a message to them, on their order page, telling them about Bitcoins and Gravy, and explaining that I was planning a barbecue sauce giveaway on my show. Then, that very same evening, I got a very nice response back from Aaron - Joe Perry's son - this was totally cool. Aaron was the one with the tech background, who got them on board the Bitcoin train to start with. So we exchanged a few emails, and then just three days later, I received my barbecue sauce in the mail. Halleljuah! [laughter]

But that's not all. Aaron was kind enough to include an autographed, 8 x 10" photo of Joe Perry, and a very cool boneyard slide, for guitar, and four Joe Perry "Rock Your World" guitar picks. So I scored, needless to say. Of course, the first thing I did was open the sauce and taste it, and holy mother-of-pearl is this stuff good! It has the perfect blend of hickory and mesquite smoked flavor, savory and sweet molasses, and a little kick to get my taste buds talking to each other.

[55:13] No, I'm serious. I could actually hear my taste buds talking to each other. They were saying things like, "Good God almighty! Did we die and go to heaven? Or are we still held prisoner here in JB's mouth?" [laughter] Yes, I am a goofy person. I know that -- understatement of the year. So here's what I'd like to do. I ordered three bottles of this "original flavor" barbecue sauce. It's a good sized, 19 ounce bottle, and of course, I ‘ll be keeping one for my meatloaf. But I'd like to find a creative way to give the other two bottles away here on the show. And since I can't seem to come up with any good contest ideas, I thought I'd just put it out there to you, the listener. So here's what you, the listener, can do to win a bottle of this amazing barbecue sauce. Just use your phone, or other device, to record your own voice telling the world why you deserve to win the barbecue sauce. Feel free to be as creative as you'd like, and to add any relevant Bitcoin story in with your recording. Whatever you want to do, the sky is the limit.

[56:12] You can send your recordings to my email address, which is : , and the recordings can be in any standard format. Of course, I will listen to all of the recordings, and the two that I judge to be the most compelling, and the most entertaining, I will play on the show for everyone to enjoy. And those two people will EACH win a bottle of this fantastic barbecue sauce. It doesn't matter what country you're in, I will ship it anywhere on the planet, at my expense.

So get your smartphones, or your other recording devices out, and start recording, people. I really can't wait to hear some of the crazy and funny stuff you guys are going to send my way. And if this goes well, maybe this can become a regular part of the show. It seems to me like Bitcoins and Gravy could end up being an excellent format for you, the listener, to get your opinions and thoughts out there for everyone to hear. Please try to speak clearly, and it's your choice as to whether or not you use your real name. If you use your real name, I'll announce it on the show. You can use an alias, or just call yourself "anonymous".

[57:17] Oh, and feel free to send a rant if you'd like to. It can be a rant about the environment, a rant about how crazy our military is, a rant about some company that is ripping people off. Any kind of a rant I will also consider in the running for the contest for the barbecue sauce. I like to think that a great rant, or a great rage against some bad machine, a great wrench thrown into some machine, can compete with happy thoughts for "Why I deserve to win the barbecue sauce. "

Okay. Enough said. Good luck, listeners. And "Let the games begin!"

[outro music]

[58:09] John : I'd like to thank my guest on today's show, Hubert, the guy from Mad Potcoins. Hubert and Potcoin are leading the way in creating a world where all crops are grown conscientiously, and with respect for Mother Nature, who has given us such a wonderful world. Folks, it's up to us to be good stewards of this world.

If you've enjoyed the show today, please take a minute to leave a comment on Let's Talk Bitcoin, in the comments section, right there below the show notes : You can also leave a message on Soundcloud : Or do the old fashioned thing and send me an email. And, of course, Bitcoin and Litecoin tips are always appreciated by the hardworking writers and podcasters in the Bitcoin world. Many of us work as volunteers, and sure could use those tips. Signing off now from East Nashville, Tennessee. I'm your host John Barrett, with my trusty companion Maxwell by my side. Say goodbye Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grrrr.....

[59:09] John : Y'all be good to each other out there now. And remember, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women to do nothing.

[show outro music]

John : I know that it may sound absurd, but I have for you a "magic word". And today the magic word is "organic"... O - R - G - A - N - I - C - organic. As in the sentence, "I sure wish people who grow food and marijuana would use organic nutrients, instead of using bad chemicals and pesticides. "

[59:47] Max : Grrr...... grrrr.... Grrr........