Bitcoins and Gravy #69: Grantcoin is Here to Empower! (Transcript)

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[0:00] John Barrett (Announcer and Host): Welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy, Episode #69. At the time of this recording Bitcoins are trading at $235.00 dollars each, and everybody’s favorite, LTBCoin, is trading at $0.000102 U.S. dollars each. Mmm…Mmm…Mmm… Now THAT’S gravy!

[Intro music]

John : Welcome to "Bitcoins and Gravy", and thanks for joining me today as I podcast, once again, from East Nashville, Tennessee, with my trusty Siberian Husky, Maxwell, by my side. Say "Hello!", Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grrrrr…..

John : We’re two Bitcoin enthusiasts who love talking about Bitcoins, and related technologies, and passing on what we learn with you. Long time listeners, thank you so much for joining us again, and for your generous tips. New listeners, we hope you enjoy the show.

[intro music concludes]

[0:59] John : On today's show I have the PRIVILEGE of speaking with the three founders of the Grantcoin ( ). Grantcoin is a global alternative currency distributed by a non-profit organization, The Grantcoin Foundation ( ). Their mission is to incentivize a sustainable economy and environment. Grantcoin is sold on exchanges, and given as grants to people, businesses and organizations that are making the world a better place. Friends, this is a lively interview where we push technology to it’s limits by using Skype in a 4-way call from four different locations around the United States. This is a "no miss" interview.

[segway music]

John : All right, listeners. Today on the show I am THRILLED to be speaking with three guys : Brandon Venetta, Eric Stetson, and Jon Frechin. These guys are the founders of Grantcoin. Gentlemen, welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy.

Eric : Great to be here.

John : Yes sir. Yes sir. Welcome to the show, guys.

[2:01] Brandon : : Thanks for having us, John.

John : Yes sir. Brandon, Eric, and John. Now where are you guys? You guys are in three different locations right now?

Eric : Yeah. This is Eric. I'm in Northern Virginia, near DC.

Brandon : Brandon's in Orlando, Florida.

John : Okay.

Jon : And this is Jon. I'm over in Denver, Colorado.

John : Wow. You guys are all spread out. That's crazy. So I guess you guys are working remotely? Is this a regular thing? Do you NORMALLY live close to each other, or is this a permanent, remote-location type of project.

Eric : We're doing it remotely, and it's actually a pretty interesting story of how this project got started. So, basically, last year I was working for the SolarCoin project - which I know you've interviewed their founders on your show...

John : Oh, yeah.

Jon : Yeah. It's a very interesting project, and I really learned so much from being involved in that. Of course, that's ANOTHER cryptocurrency with a charitable motive, which is what I'm really interested in - using this technology to help create a better world.

John : Mmm Hmm.

[3:01] Eric : So I was actually down at a Bitcoin conference in Orlando, and met Brandon down there, and we started talking about cryptocurrencies, and Brandon was another SolarCoin supporter -- and, of course, we all still are. I mean, SolarCoin is a really cool idea...

John : Oh, yeah.

Eric : But we started talking about some of MY ideas, [in] which I had an idea for a cryptocurrency that would financially incentivize sustainable business - businesses that are socially and environmentally responsible -- and also that would have a fair distribution to nations and communities all around the world to give equal economic opportunity...

John : Okay.

Eric : ...which is something that, really, very few cryptocurrencies have done in a way that really would work.

John : Okay.

Eric : And so Brandon and I started talking, and Brandon said, "You know, you've got some really cool ideas here, and I think if you want to forward with this I would want to help." So we kept talking about it, and we decided to go ahead and give it a shot. Then Jon came in a month or two later, and, I guess, Jon, do you want to tell a little bit about how you got involved?

[4:09] Jon : Well, yeah. I had already been pretty deeply interested in the crypto space, and following it really closely. [Then] simultaneously - in my personal business experience - I work with a lot of companies that really align exactly along the model of what Eric was envisioning. It was something I had a lot of experience - and also a lot pf passion - towards something I was really interested in. So it just, kind of, combined two of probably my top interests, and I was really intrigued, and wanted to be part of it as well.

John : Okay. That's great stuff. So you guys are working together. Let's go down the list one more time, starting with Eric, and then Brandon, and then Jon. What are your skills that you bring to this group? Eric?

Eric : Okay. Well, my background is mostly in the non-profit sector. I've worked in management roles for small non-profits. I've actually worked with non-profit startups as well, helping them to get started up. I also have a background in front-end development, mainly web site development. I've done a lot of that, freelance. I also have worked in journalism. I also did a business startup a couple of years ago, which was [basically] an online journalism, blogging and media aggregator. We were aggregating content from over ten thousand sources, and categorizing it. We actually ended up being chosen as a finalist at the Huffington Post Entrepreneurship Expo at the Democratic National Convention in 2012.

John : Oh, wow.

Eric : So [with] that business we did get a first round of angel funding, but we couldn't get a second round. It was too hard to raise more money, so we ended up pivoting, actually, into developing algorithmic investing software.

[6:02] John : MmmHmm.

Eric : In the course of that I got interested in cryptocurrency, because I saw that at that time it was an emerging technology that I looked into and felt like, "Hey, this is really something that could revolutionize the financial system." So I got interested in Bitcoin, and then got into other cryptocurrencies. So I have a very diverse background, and bring a lot of different skills to this project.

John : Sounds like it. Wow, that's great. Okay. So Brandon?

Brandon : My background is into the project management, just managing [and] delegating resources, and finding resources to accomplish different activities that need to be accomplished. Then my passion in life is just the global mission of helping developing economies, and communities, grow. So that's my main driver into the cryptocurrency spaces, to help other around the globe.

[7:00] John : Good stuff. [Jon]?

Jon : Yes. I guess it kind of just started off in college. I studied economics, and was also privately [got] really, kind of, obsessively interested in the whole idea of economic theory when it comes to finance and banking. I was just endlessly reading books on the Federal Reserve, [and] the history of money.Then, after I graduated, I ended not pursuing an economics career. Instead, I got into the natural foods world, and started doing marketing and work for a lot of different, kind of responsible, sustainable-style companies that especially focused on food related products; like organic, fair trade, B-corporation style companies that were really fulfilling a lot of ideas that I personally was also passionate about.

[8:00] You know, really stemming from the same idea of us as individuals in an economy creating the world we want to see, and not depending upon some external organization to do that. Being able to, within my own power as an individual, make whatever changes I can. So I've been spending a lot of time working with a lot of companies there. Then I found out about Bitcoin, and that really captivated me, because it brought back that previous interest in finance and banking, and all of these ideas that had been so interesting to me. I got really obsessed with that, spending a lot of my time researching all these different alt-coins, [and] all these different ideas, and then came across Eric and Brandon, and the rest is history.

John : Nice. I told myself, before the interview, "I'm going to ask each one of these guys what they do, [and] what their background is." And if they all say, "Well, my background is in trading.", and the other one says, "My background is in gambling." and the next guy says, "My background is in finance.", I'm going to end the interview right there, and make an excuse like, "Hey guys. I've got something burning on the stove. I gotta go immediately." But it sounds like you guys are pretty diverse, and it sounds like you all have your hearts and minds in the right space, and you share some similar world views.

[9:20] Eric : Yeah. Also, we have a good team of advisers too, and a lot of the advisers are bringing a lot of really hardcore technical knowledge to the project too. For example, we have a guy advising us who was one of the developers for a cryptocurrency in the past, and actually has a background working in back-end development. He worked at Cray. We have another guy working for us who owns and operates, for thirty years, a server security company that has major corporate clients. So he's advising us on network security and prevention of hacking, and stuff like that. Then we've got other [advisers] as well.

[10:00] Basically, I would say everybody involved in this project, no matter what they're bringing to the table, we are all people that believe in freedom, and who believe that through people's free choice we can transform the way that the economy works. I think the amazing potential of cryptocurrency [is that] really opens up an avenue for people who, let's say, believe in certain values about like, "We want to have an economy that doesn't hurt the environment. We want to have an economy where people are respected by businesses, and not just kind of as interchangeable parts, to just dump them." [Basically], we want an economy where people are paid a living wage. But we don't necessarily feel that the government is going to be doing these things through force. Some people would say that the government shouldn't. Other people would say that even if they think the government should, it just never will.

[11:00] There's a huge amount of frustration out there now, I think, both among libertarian and liberals, and really everybody in general. A lot of people believe in certain values about how the economy should work, and that we need to create a better world that works for everyone, that's more fair, more just, [and] more sustainable, but that government isn't necessarily going to be providing the solution.

John : Yeah. I think that's true. I think that people in government - moreso in federal government than in the state government - and I'm referring to people who run for office. I'm not referring to the people who work in the offices, because they're all hard-working people. But the people who run for office - you know, those politicians, the guys and gals that get elected, and the career politicians - the bottom line is they're too comfortable. They're living very, very, very comfortable lives. So [we] know, historically, when people are leading comfortable live - and psychologists and and sociologists talk about that - the people who are living very comfortable lives, who don't have anything to worry about when it comes to food and clothing and shelter - or anything like that - they tend to really just want to keep what they have, and they tend to stick with people who live that same way. And over time they tend to just, kind of, ignore those people who don't have.

[12:09] So if those politicians [could] be put into a position where there was an immediate need for THEMSELVES things would change overnight. Well, we know that's not going to happen. So Grantcoin is here. What's the specific problem that Grantcoin is trying to solve, and how do you guys plan to solve it?

Eric : Okay. Well, really to just sum it up I would say that if somebody were to come forward and present as a plan, "Okay. I have this idea for how we should have a currency. The way it works is basically [that] we have a central bank that creates the currency out of nothing as loans to for-profit institutions who make profit by lending money. They get to lend [up] to ten times as much money as they actually have on their books, and they get to profit off of that. The way that they do that is they lend money to whoever can make them the most profits."

[13:00] "So if that's a business that, let's say, is exploiting workers, paying them 10 cents an hour, or whatever. Or let's say it's a company that's spewing all kinds of toxic chemicals into the environment, the bank is just like, "Hey well! You've got a great profit margin. You're going to make money for us. So it sounds good to me!" This is the system we have, and I think most people - if this were presented to most people as like a white paper - like, "Oh, hey. Here's an idea for a monetary system.", most people would laugh it out of the room. "This is insane. Get out of here! This is a crazy idea!" So this is what we have, and we need to figure out how to fix it. Now Bitcoin came along and said, "Okay. We want to basically have NO ONE get to have any human input at all into the way that money gets distributed into circulation. We want to have it entirely done by computers." And, of course, the by-product of that is that whoever happens to have the most powerful mining rigs - which is mostly people that already have a lot of money, and have a lot of technical know-how - they get to be the ones that get access to the currency being created.

[14:08] So, I think GrantCoin is basically coming along and saying, "Okay. The fiat system is terrible. It creates inequality of wealth, it wrecks the environment, blah, blah, blah." The Bitcoin system is a big improvement over the fiat system, but it can still be improved upon. We're coming along and saying we want to improve upon it by injecting values that, really, most people believe in, about how to create a more fair and sustainable economy that works for everyone, and doesn't destroy the planet that we all depend upon.

John : Okay. That all sounds great. I know there are listeners out there wondering, "Okay. But there are so many alt-coins out there that SAY that they're doing something great." So guys, what are the factors that you believe will set GrantCoin apart and make it successful?

Eric : First of all we are a non-profit organization, legally incorporated. We're one of a very few. It's really only a handful of cryptocurrencies that are [having] their project managed by a legitimate non-profit.

[15:06] John : Okay. That's a great start right there. That's huge, because most of them, we know, are not. That's great. Okay.

Eric : Right. That, kind of, leads me into the second point, which is professionalism and transparency. We're very big on these concepts. It's kind of some of our core values of the project, and how it's being run. We believe [in] the absolute highest standard of ethics. The people involved all have to sign ethics pledges which are published on our web site. We have ethics policies that are published on our web site. We have bylaws that are published, [and] all kinds of other policies that are published, and we're really trying to run this in a way so that normal people out there can look at this and say, "Okay. These people are trying to change the monetary system, which is like a huge, big deal. So for something like that they better be doing it with ethics and professionalism." So that's why we're doing it that way, because people would DEMAND that.

[16:06] Also, we have a team that has a diverse set of talents. We've already talked about that a little bit before. Another point is that we're going to be fully integrated into the Ripple trade platform, which is we will be one of just a handful of cryptocurrencies that people will be able to buy and sell for fiat currency, like dollars, and euros, and a whole host of other fiat currencies. The Ripple trade platform enables that, and we already [have] partnerships in the Ripple space to get us fully integrated into Ripple, to enable ordinary people to buy and trade GrantCoin for fiat currencies.

John : Okay. Nice. A lot of people - we won't go deeply into Ripple, because that’s not what we're here to talk about - but a lot of people really don't like Ripple. A lot of people in the Bitcoin world really have problems with the way Ripple is designed, as compared to Bitcoin. But what I tell people is, "Ripple is not Bitcoin, and Bitcoin is not Ripple." If Bitcoin had never come along, and Ripple had come along, I think that a lot of people who are excited about Bitcoin would be interested - they would not be AS excited - but I think they would be interested in Ripple because of what it has to offer. But they are two very different models, and people need to know that, and understand that Ripple is actually here to stay. People really need to be able to stop comparing Bitcoin to Ripple, in my opinion.

[17:31] Brandon : Yeah. Most definitely. So you asked: What is going to make GrantCoin succeed? I think the difference that we, as the founders and the people that are starting to get engaged - we see this technology, and we're utilizing it as a TOOL for a far bigger mission, rather than the project itself focused on the technology itself. I think that's what the crypto community is engulfed with right now. They're SO focused on the technology. They're not looking at a mission of how the technology is going to change the world. So I think that's, kind of, a unique approach of the technology is tools that we're using, it's not what's driving the project itself.

[18:21] Jon : Yeah. I think to add to a couple of these points that Brad [brought up?], first with like the Ripple-Bitcoin thing, I think from our perspective we understand and appreciate the fact that there are people who appreciate Ripple, and people who appreciate Bitcoin, and maybe some who don't appreciate either. But, for us, we want to accommodate both of those markets. We're going to be on Bitcoin trades, like Bitrex. We're trying to appeal to both. So it's not to say that somehow Grantcoin is just this offshoot of Ripple. It's not. What Ripple does on their platform is not indicative of Grantcoin in any way, just as is the same with Bitcoin.

[19:04] We're, in a sense, trying to find as many opportunities and ways that we can integrate these other technologies. I think that also applies to why we, hopefully, will be successful. Because a lot of these alt-coins - you know, when you say "There's a ton of alt-coins" - what gives you that value? At the core of GrantCoin is [that] we want to make the value. We want to prove to you guys - to everyone - that we're worthy of it. We don't expect someone to just be like, "Oh, GrantCoin. Yeah, I'm part of it." I want people to look up, see what we're doing, [and] see who we're partnering with. I mean, that's a big part of it too. We're really going to be diligent about partnering with organizations that already do this, so that we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. You know? There's a lot of organizations that already have programs in place. I mean: B Corporation, Certified Organic, Fair Trade, Rainforest Alliance - just to name a few.

[20:00] John : MmmHmm.

Jon : We want to work with reputable organizations, and by doing that that's where we get our reputation. That's key to us. It's voluntary thing. You participate in GrantCoin because we're doing a good job. You stop participating in GrantCoin because we don't do what we're saying. We don't want anyone to just, - on their own, without research anything - just be like, "Yeah, GrantCoin!" You know? I think that happens a lot with these alt-coins, and then people get burned, because in the end they really weren't fundamentally sound. Do you know what I mean?

John : Yup. So how does someone actually USE a GrantCoin? What is the actual use case for a GrantCoin?

Eric : We're trying to partner with businesses that are already in the, sort of, conscious consumer, stakeholder capitalism, kind of space. This is a booming sector of the economy now, and I think that Jon can talk a lot more about this because he actually works in that sector. But just quickly, I'll just say that essentially we're trying to create a currency for that sector, which we believe should really become the normal way that the economy works as time goes on.

[21:08] A currency is basically one of the bedrock, kind of necessary functions of ANY economy, or any sector, So we're going to be partnering with businesses in that space, and giving them grants to financially incentivize them is really kind of our main distribution mechanism.

John : Okay. Now can people buy GrantCoins on exchanges?

Eric : Oh yeah, absolutely. We're on Bitrex, and another exchange called SouthExchange, which is based in Argentina - it's a new one. So we're on those two Bitcoin exchanges starting on May 15th, and we will soon be on Ripple Trade as well, probably in a couple of weeks. So yeah, absolutely. People will be able to buy GrantCoin, and trade it.

John : How about mining it?

Eric : And mining, right. There's mining too. Now the mining is only a small part. Basically, the way that we've set it up is that it's about equivalent to [like] a "proof of stake" reward, where you get, essentially, an interest rate on your holdings every year.

[22:12] So we're planning to switch it over to "proof of stake" later this year, but while we still do have mining right now, for the next few months, the mining rewards are basically designed to, sort of, approximate the amount of currency that would be produced through the "proof of stake" system - one percent a year. Yeah, so mining is a small part, but it's a significant part at the beginning.

John : Okay. Jon, did you have anything to add to what he was talking about there?

Jon : Yeah. I guess the point I would make is, kind of, going to back to my years in economics, one really important philosophy was the idea of like when you have a localized economy you want to recycle that wealth and that value, and not have it exported to another state, country, or area. I think the same mindset applies to the sustainable culture, and the ethical business culture. You know?

[23:09] There is a whole very rapidly growing community of people who are actively engaged in supporting businesses that, kind of, coincide with these concepts of sustainability and ethical practices. And when you have a currency that can align with that you can, kind of, keep that value within that system. It's, kind of, going back to that point [by] Andreas. We are in a paradigm shift. Before your currency was based on your location. It was based on the government that you were under. Now it can be based on your values. [If] someone in Ghana, or someone in South America, or someone anywhere in the world has the same values they can be part of the same economy. That's what I think is a really beautiful idea.

[24:01] You create this, kind of, snowballing effect that is preventing maybe a lot of this wealth and value from going back out to these less reputable currencies and organizations, and things. So, to me, I think that's just a really important point, and a really big part of our mission,

John : I think so. Speaking of missions, in the mission statement on your web site you say that, "Money is a social invention which can be changed by the people according to their values." Of course, some people would argue that money is something that CAN'T be based on values - that it has to be based on something more tangible. How do you respond to that?

Eric : Well, that's a really great question, John. I mean, I think there's sort of a mythology about money that most people believe in, which is the idea that money is sort of this tangible thing that [is] based on a real something of substance. Money has NEVER really been - I mean, the closest thing it ever got to that was with gold and silver. You know, way back when.

[25:03] John : Yeah.

Eric : But even with gold and silver that was a decision that people made to say, "We're going to take these particular minerals, which are pretty minerals [that] have some economic uses." But not really that many, especially back in those days. There wasn't really an economic use for gold like the way there is now, with circuits and stuff like that. [So] gold was a value judgement that people made. They said, "We're going to take this particular mineral and we're going to call it money." What that did is it basically gave an economic favoritism, essentially, to countries - and/or tribes, or whatever groups of people in the world - that happened to have a lot of gold within their borders. And it incentivized people to go out and try to conquer those parts of the world, by force, that happened to have a lot of gold so that they could plunder their money - what they believed was money. So this was all basically a social myth, this idea that gold is money. That's a mythology that people chose through their free choice.

[26:07] Similarly, then when the debt-based currency system evolved, with the money being issued by banks, that is ALSO based on a myth of, "Okay. We're going to decide that this is money." You know, when banks punch some digits into their computer screens, or whatever, and create loans, that that's actually money being created. And with Bitcoin there isn't really any barrier to entry to create a blockchain and to mine cryptocurrency. The value of cryptocurrency just derives from people being willing to BUY it. If nobody BELIEVED in Bitcoin, [and] nobody was actually willing to buy it on the free market, [then] it wouldn't really have any value, because anybody could just fire up a $10 VPS on DigitalOcean, or whatever, and buy all the Bitcoins in existence if they were the only person that believed in it.

[27:06] John : Right [laughter].

Eric : So, basically, money inherently is based on people's values and on people's freedom of choice to decide, "Okay. What kind of a system do we want to have for what money is going to be, and how it's going to work [and] how it's going to be distributed?"

John : Wow. Good stuff. Anybody have anything to add to that?

Jon : I think that was perfectly put.

John : I do too. Nice. So you guys believe in fair global distribution of currency, right?

Eric : Yeah. Absolutely. That's one of the key principles of our project, because if we think about it, according to the United Nations, for example, there's over 3 billion people in the world. That's like [half of the percentage of the population] of the world that's living on under $2.50 a day. There are whole parts of the world where people are drinking water out of open sewers, and where people have worms living in their intestines.

[28:10] John : Yeah.

Eric : This is the reality of the world that we live in. So we have this incredible power with cryptocurrency to shift the way the monetary system works by creating a more equitable distribution of currency. Just in the way the currency INITIALLY gets distributed out into circulation in the economy. That's something that "we the people" can change. I mean, we have the power through our freedom to say, "Okay. We think it should be more based on population. You know, [as] a certain part of the world has a certain population they're going to get a certain percentage of the distribution of currency. That's part of how GrantCoin works."

John : Right, [a] greater population should have more of the currency, right? Seems to make sense to me. So I envision a world 10 or 20 years from now when we do have LOTS of different digital currencies, lots of different cryptocurrencies. Maybe Bitcoin is one of those. maybe LiteCoin is one of those. Who knows. But I like to think that something like GrantCoin and SolarCoin, and some of these great coins, I like to think that they're right there with Bitcoin being used all over the world. how do you envision something like that working? Specifically for GrantCoin, but also within the context of there being other cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin. Can you give some examples of what you think that would look like if that occurred?

[29:28] Eric : Well, I think there's going to be a variety of different currencies competing on the free market. I think this is one of the great things that cryptocurrency provides, this opportunity for people to choose which currencies they like better. So I think that there will be a number of different options, and there already are, and I think [that] as these cryptocurrencies gain market share in the real-world economy - which is steadily happening. It's a slow process at first, but the adoption curve will continue to dramatically increase. Similar to the way that when the internet first started, initially it was just a few kind of techie geeks - or whatever- using it, but then as time went on pretty soon EVERYBODY ended up using it. So I think digital money is going to be sort of like that, and there will be more open competition among monies in the world. I think this is just an AWESOME thing, that if people don't like the way the monetary system works - with fiat, or with whatever else - they can just go and use a different currency.

[30:35] I think the general economy is going to adapt to that reality over the next five or ten years. It will be increasingly easy for people to just pull out their smartphone, or whatever, at normal businesses, and pay with whatever currency that they happen to want to pay with. I think this is what the future is going to be.

John : Yeah. I hope so. I envision that same future, but I also know that there's always some dirty rat hiding in the shadows; some organized crime THUG, or some government organized crime thug who wants to rig the books and set the thing up so that they have CONTROL over what you CAN and what you CAN'T do, right? So they have THE currency that everybody runs toward, or THE currency that everybody HAS TO use - because you have the QR code emblazoned above your left eyebrow, or something.

[31:26] [laughter]

Joh : I mean, I love all of these positive ideas, but STILL, I look at the power structures that exist, and I look at the CIA and the FBI, and the MI6 and the Mossad. I look at all of [these] and I think, "These guys are some of the most brilliant guys in terms of espionage, tech, [and] weapons, and these guys are sitting there watching the cryptocurrency world, and watching Bitcoin, and saying 'We're not going to let these punks push us around."

Jon : [laughter] I think, to respond to that, I feel like it's kind of like when the U.S. government pretty much invented the foundation of the internet they opened Pandora's box.

[32:10] I think [it's] already starting to come to the realization that the freedoms inherent in the internet [are] - hopefully I'm not speaking too soon - are kind of inevitable now, and maybe it's too big of a beast for any one government to control. I feel like, [very] likely, something similar is going to have to happen in the cryptocurrency space. By the time they're really giving enough thought to it it will probably, hopefully be too late. You know what I mean? Just as it probably is with the internet realm.

John : Yeah. I like that thought. I like to think that way, man. That gives me great hope to know that some of the young people in the country are thinking that way. You guys are a non-profit, and I think that's fantastic. So talk about GrantCoin as a charity. You've got the non-profit status, and you're giving away grants of cryptocurrency to communities in the developing world, right?

[33:03] Eric : Yeah. This is a big part of what we're planning to do. Basically, the idea is that we have a certain amounts of our currency supply that are reserved for certain purposes, and 40 percent of it is reserved for grants [for] basically like small businesses and communities around the world that are socially and environmentally responsible in how they run their business, and what kind of activities they're doing, and people in their communities will actually be empowered to be making these decision of which businesses to actually give these financial incentives to in the form of GrantCoin. We're basically trying to create a grant-based monetary system where it's sort of like built right into the system that the people - in their communities - get to decide, "Okay. There's "Joe's Pizzeria" down the street, on main street." or whatever.

[33:54] "They're paying their workers really well, giving them employee ownership of the company, they're really big into recycling, and they have a solar panel on their roof..." [and] stuff like that. So we, the GrantCoin affiliate, in whatever town wherever this happens to be, may say, "Okay. Joe's Pizzeria [is] going to get a big grant from us to incentivize and reward them for the way that they're doing business." If this kind of thing happens all over the world [it's] basically a form of charity, essentially, to try to help businesses with a social conscience. In terms of the developing world side of it I think Brandon would probably be the right person to address that more - because ít's kind of his bigger area of interest - but that's also a big part of what we're doing too.

Brandon : Yeah. That's the main driver of how I even entered into the crypto space. My wife originates from Venezuela, so I'm intimately learning how challenging a community and country that is going through such turmoil - as far as economically and controlled government entities that [are] controlling every part of the day-to-day life.

[35:17] John : MmmHmm.

Brandon : So before I met her - you hear about it on the news - but until you actually witness it, and care for those people [who] are going through that, you never really have that connection. So that started it. Then you start reading up more, and you start learning about other people and what their challenges are. Every person has challenges that they face, you know?

John : MmmHmm.

Brandon : It's just, how do you deal with those challenges? A community in Africa is going to have different challenges than a community in South Asia, or vice versa. I think that's one of the biggest challenges we're going to have is finding those bright people in these different communities to help promote GrantCoin for what it's worth. That's where it's just going to take the right people and the right resources. The right people will come to this project, and I just see that it will -- the best feeling that [I will] have when this project reaches it's potential is when it actually generates a transaction of an individual in, let's say Africa, [who] makes a transaction with GrantCoin for their family's food for the week, or something. That's what gets me excited, [and] that's what drives me to keep going. Until that happens we're going to just keep trucking along and make this happen.

John : Well, I love that. I know [that] when Andreas Antonopoulis came back from Argentina a few years back he went right to a Bitcoin conference, and everybody at the conference was talking about, "Look, i have this new idea for a Bitcoin wallet." and "Here's new ways to get vendors excited." and, you know, "How many people have I signed up this past week to accept Bitcoin for their online stores?", and all of this. He came back from Argentina, seeing the problems there - the problems that are similar to what you're talking about in Venezuela, and in many parts of the world right now - and in many parts of the United States right now.

[37:29] Brandon : Yeah.

John : You know? You wouldn't know if all you did was listen to the evening news. Even though they give you lots of bad news they don't tell you the real bad stuff that's going on, right? When he came back he was so on fire about the problems, and how he saw Bitcoin as having the potential to solve these problems. But he was angry. You could hear him when he spoke at this conference. He was almost making fun of people about their plans to get this project up and running for "shopping" - "SHOPPING!", you know?

Brandon : Yeah.

John : He started using the word "shopping" in the most annoying way...


John : ... because it really is an annoying word, you know? You know immediately [that] that's not the girl... Personally, I'm looking for a wife, you know? I'm not picky as far as color. I'm not picky as far as age, or socio-economics, and all of this. But if you ask a woman, "So what do you enjoy doing when you're not working?" If the first word out of her mouth is "shopping" then I just walk away.


John : Or, if she mentions her first three favorite television shows - [since] I'm an anti-TV guy - I walk away.


John : But I digress, as I'm known to do. So carry on guys. Tell me more about GrantCoin...

Eric : John, I just want to add something really quickly to this whole point that Brandon is making about the ordinary person in Africa, who would hopefully be buying their food with GrantCoin, the things is that as much respect I have for Bitcoin, and the amazing things that the Bitcoin community has done to pioneer this amazing technology of cryptocurrency...

[39:01] John : MmmHmm.

Eric : ... I have to say that for the average person in a place like Venezuela or Ghana, or whatever country in the world where people are living on like less than $1 a day, or something, these folks they don't really have the money to buy a mining rig and mine Bitcoin . They don't have the money to go and buy Bitcoin on exchanges. What they need is an injection of grant capital through a philanthropic cryptocurrency to come to them and say, "We want you to have economic opportunity just like we have here in the United States, or whatever, and we're going to try to give that to you by creating a cryptocurrency that has this built-in distribution system that is equitable around the world." So the person in Africa who wants to buy their food, if GrantCoin gains a significant amount of value on the markets - because of, let's say, wealthy people in the United States, or in Europe, or wherever, who say, "Hey, this is a wonderful idea! I want to support this because this could make a better world." Some of those wealthy people might put their capital in, and then GrantCoin would gain real value, and then the folks in Africa, or in South America, or whatever, that are living on hardly any money, they're going actually have value flowing into their communities through GrantCoin's distribution.

John : Yeah. I like it.

Jon: It will be a lot more valuable too, because [when] you live off of $2.50 a day a $0.50 grant to you would be massively more valuable than a $0.50 grant to someone on Wall Street or in LA. It balances out where these people -- think of a demographic like whole food shoppers. These are generally a little bit more well-off individuals who are trying to find ways to kind of balance out the way our economy works. Just literally, by using GrantCoin, if the companies that they support are under that model, and they're recycling that value, then they're simultaneously supporting these communities where that GrantCoin has such a potent value, because it's such an underdeveloped economy, you know?

[41:09] John : Yeah. I love the idea that I heard about a while back. It was a guy who sold eggs, right? He had his own hens and he sold eggs, but he needed a motorcycle in order to grow his business. If he had a motorcycle he could go from being able to distribute in a very small area, on foot and by bicycle, to expand that area substantially and basically have his company grow from what it was - just one person selling a few eggs, to one person selling a lot of eggs, [and] maybe even hire somebody to help. So he was looking for a grant to buy a motorcycle. I think he only needed a couple hundred dollars, but yet, I think here in the West, in particular, we underestimate how far $100 or $200 can go. I do, occasionally, go out to a nice restaurant - not very often - and I might drop $50, $80 [or] $100. That doesn't happen very often. That's not how I live my life, but that does happen sometimes. You know, a big event, like my father's 80th birthday coming up, we'll probably all go out and we'll probably spend a bunch of money. We don't understand - we can't conceive of - if other people in other countries could see what we just did [they're be like], "Wow! These people all just ate a really good meal, and drank some wine." - the equivalent of, let's say, two or three bottles of wine - if they could see how much money we all just spent they wouldn't be able to believe it, right? Because that amount of value would represent to them weeks and weeks and weeks - if not months - worth of food, and being able to start businesses, and all of that. So it's just impossible for us to see it, just like [for] the politicians in Washington [DC], it's really difficult for them to see outside of their closed little worlds, and I think the same thing is true for us. Even really good-hearted people here in the United States - [like] the good working family man [who] he and his wife both work, and they have kids, and they've got a nice house, and they have their television, and blah, blah, blah - it's really hard for those people to be able to see outside of that, and to be able to see how bad things are for other people in this country, but also all over the world. It's just hard to see. It's hard to get outside of yourself.

[43:12] Eric : Yeah. Absolutely.

Brandon : They [want] a tunnel vision into what is going on, you know? So 'This is the world of what's going on here', and they just tunnel vision it. So yeah, it's an interesting thing, when you start digging in deeper, of really what the issues are, and a lot of them - all the sins [of] a lot of the people's problem derive back to money. People work and do shady things for money to feed their family.

John : Yeah.

Brandon : You know? So you just look at values of the current monetary system. The values there are not good. You know? Like the news, all you see is bad. Like [there's] nothing but war, and drug abuse, and all this. It just piles these people's mindset of just bad news. So you just look at all the values that are associated to the current monetary system and it's nothing but negative. So why not change that? [laughter]

John : Yeah.

Brandon : Let's bring out the positive in individuals, because we all have it. Every human being knows what's right and what's wrong. It's [when] they move forward in life, and they start making decisions based upon money is when they start questioning what's right and wrong. Then they start making the wrong decisions that affect people's well being, and [that of] the planet. Yeah, so...

John : Yeah. I agree.

Brandon : So it's quite simple. Like, it's hard to grasp, but when you focus in on it it is very simple. It's just deriving values with value, and that's what GrantCoin is about. It's going to take some time for people to understand it, but when you start looking at the bigger picture of it it is very simple to look at.

[45:04] John : I agree. Most people that talk about alt-coins, one of the things they question is [the] tech behind it. You guys mentioned that you had some people who are advising, or consulting, you - and I assume you're paying some of those consultants - but your team right now - the three of you guys - seems to be lacking one thing, and that is some tech guru who is there saying, "Okay. Here's exactly how this protocol is going to work." Is there actualLY a separate protocol that's separate from the Bitcoin protocol? What's the actual tech - the nuts and bolts - behind the GrantCoin?

Eric : Okay. We have our own blockchain. It's a fork from PeerCoin.

John : Okay.

Eric : I actually am the developer. I learned how to be a cryptocurrency developer so I that could do this project. I mean, I do have a development background before, but as I said before [it was] mostly front-end stuff. But I decided that 'I really want to dig into this, and really learn how this technology all works'. So I did, and we got our blockchain working, and it was really cool actually to dig into the code, and just really study it, and figure out, "Oh yeah. Okay. This is how it all works. This is what's going on here in the code." We got it working. We have a functioning blockchain. I mean, everything is good [and] as far as we know there's no bugs in it, but of course it's always an evolutionary process with developing out the technology. The wallets, right now, are still very simple, in terms of like we haven't yet made them super user-friendly. We haven't made the wallets yet kind of "grandma friendly", you might say. But really, most crypto projects haven't yet. This is one of our big priorities, and yeah, we're looking for somebody to join our core team as a lead developer who has more strong experience in cryptocurrency development, and especially somebody who values the idea of user-friendliness for the average user - you know, people who aren't into Bitcoin yet, and they're just discovering this technology, and they don't want to have to be a geek in order to use it and understand it.

[47:28] Eric : So yeah, I would say it's true that right now we have advisors that have the software development background, and the crypto development background. On our core team I'm the developer right now, and I can do it for the basic stuff, but we're looking to go beyond the basic stuff and really become, hopefully, one of the premier alt-coins on the tech side too. That will take more personnel, and raising more funds, and so forth.

John : Well, I love the fact that you took the bull by the horns and you decided to learn how to do that yourself, because I think really anything in tech is learnable. So I think that's great, and I also think the fact that you guys are looking for people to help development is also fantastic. A lot of people listen to this show every week, and I wish there were better ways for you guys to get your information out there. But I think this is a pretty decent way, and then also, of course, just talking to people as time goes by. But it sounds to me like it would benefit you guys to have someone else on the development team, but I don't think that that, in any way, should - and I don't think it will - slow you guys down in moving forward and developing everything that you guys are developing. So, if somebody wants to get involved, let's say, as a volunteer, or if they want to get involved as part of your development team, what kind of help are you guys looking for beyond just development, and what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Eric : Basically, on the tech side, cryptocurrency developers who want to help to improve the wallets, [and] make it all more user-friendly for the average person, and various other development. We would really like to get somebody on board who also knows how to do stuff with mobile, like Smartphone apps...

[49:14] John : MmmHmm.

Eric : Both in terms of Smartphone wallets, and also mobile apps for businesses, like to make it easy for businesses that are going to be participating in GrantCoin. We have a coupon program that we're starting where we basically give grants in the form of GrantCoin paper wallet coupons, which would also be, of course, digitally redeemable into a GrantCoin digital wallet. We give these out to businesses that qualify for the grants according to the sustainability criteria of the triple bottom line of conscious capitalism, and all that...

John : MmmHmm.

Eric : Then they will then pass on those GrantCoin grants as rebates to their customers, but in order to do this - and we call it "proof of participation" - they have to be willing to accept GrantCoin back from customers at their businesses. So this is one way to keep the GrantCoin actually circulating within the real economy, and make it more than just a speculative thing, [and] make it into an actual currency that people use. So we would be looking for developers who could help us with developing, for example, like a really easy software app, or whatever, that merchants could use, for example, to scan the GrantCoin coupons just like the way they scan normal coupons.

John : MmmHmm.

Eric : So stuff like this. I mean, a lot of what we're looking for with help is on the tech side, but I would also say that people who are really good in marketing, and promoting on social media - we're doing a lot on social media. This is one of our really top priorities. So we're looking for people that can sort of take some of the workload off of our shoulders with that. Our Twitter account has gone from zero to over 600 followers in like a week, or a week-and-a-half since we launched.

[51:06] John : Wow! That's great!

Eric : [laughter] Yeah. So pretty soon it's going to become overwhelming for us to be keeping up with all the social media. So there's a lot of ways that people can help. Also, setting up local meetup groups in their communities for people who like the idea of GrantCoin and want to start building out the human infrastructure, in terms of organizational infrastructure, to say, "Hey! Let's start up a GrantCoin group in our community, and eventually we can qualify as an affiliate and receive grants from the foundation to distribute out in our own community." So anybody that wants to help with starting to build up those kind of local groups, wherever you are in the world, we want to hear from you. We would just encourage people to go to our web site : , read up on what we're doing, and get in touch with us if you'd like to help in any way.

John : That's great stuff. Years ago my mother worked for a grant-giving foundation in Indianapolis, and basically the guy who had inherited the foundation from his father knew nothing about investment, and knew nothing about how to take this fund that his father had left him - take these funds - and grow it, because if you're a grant-giving foundation you have to grow those funds, otherwise as you give out the funds eventually the funds will be gone, right? You certainly cannot rely on keeping those funds in a bank account and hoping that's going to grow. So that may be something that you guys would want to think about for the future too. As you want that to grow you will have to make some investments, most likely outside of the cryptocurrency world. It would be great if you could do all of your investing within the cryptocurrency world, and maybe you can - when you look at all the different startups, and all the different projects and platforms - there may be enough there to invest in that would give you great returns that you could grow this fund over time. But truthfully, I don't know much about grant-giving foundations, and I don't know much about grants, or grant writing, or anything like that. But let me wrap it up by asking each one of you, 'Let's say that GrantCoin succeeds in its goals - as you guys envision them - and becomes a major global currency. For each one of you, how would the economy be different as a direct result of GrantCoin existing in the world?

[53:22] Eric : Well, who wants to go first? [laughter]

John : And say your name.

Brandon : I'll start. It's Brandon. Yeah, just [for] people to be happy, and enjoy life for what it is, and enjoy their family and whatever hobbies or interests they have. That's what I hope. [laughter]

John : Nice. Nice.

Eric : Jon?

Jon : Yeah, for me I envision it as people having viable opportunity to have the ability to just make that judgement call to be part of this. You know, to be part of something that is a financial structure that is for the betterment of, kind of, society and the environment. Then have a system in which these systems of business that traditionally have a higher overhead - because they have more values - are kind of subsidized by the fact that they're receiving grants to kind of make up for the fact that they can't be as competitive on the traditional economic market.

John : Mmm. Nice.

Eric : Okay, and I guess the kind of tie together what Brandon and Jon just said I would kind of summarize it like this, that we want to create an economic system that balances the important need for the profit motive in the economy - to encourage people to work and to produce, and so forth - with people living a good life, and people being respected for their humanity by the economy.

John : Hmm.

Eric : Like Brandon said, everybody should be able to live a good life, spend time with their family, [and] pursue hobbies. People shouldn't be slaves to gigantic cult corporations that pay them dirt wages because of the fact that they can get bank loans from banks that'll promote them to do business that way, because that's profitable for the bank's bottom line.

[55:25] John : Mmm.

Eric : We want to create an economy that balances the profit motive with respect for human beings and respect for the environment that we really all depend on for survival. So this is what we're envisioning with GrantCoin, and we believe that the people of the world can come together, and through their freedom can make it happen. We invite anyone who believes in these values to check us out, and if you like what we're doing and you think that we're good people who are doing things the right way we invite you to join us and be part of this team to move GrantCoin forward for a more sustainable world economy.

John : Man, I love it! You guys are great! Hey Brandon Veneta, Eric Stetson, and Jon Freshen, thank you guys so much for coming on the show and talking to us about GrantCoin. I'm excited about it. I love the idea that GrantCoin could even be working with SolarCoin some day, and that you guys are thinking about using Ripple as a tool, right? I mean, you're thinking about using maybe something that Ethereum offers as a tool, and Bitcoin can offer as a tool.

Eric : Yup. Yup.

John : That you guys are willing to look at all of these different tools that you can use. I think that's smart.

Eric : We're going to use every tool we can. I mean, we don't have any prejudices against anybody - [like] the Bitcoin community, the Ripple community - we love other alt-coins that are doing good in the world. I still am sort of an informal advisor for SolarCoin as well. I mean, I still have a relationship with the founders, and I wish them well. I really wish any cryptocurrency well that's trying to use this technology to make a better world. I think we need more of that. That's where the energy should be flowing in this movement or cryptocurrency.

John : Absolutely. Hey guys, thank you so much. All the best to GrantCoin, and tell our listeners, one more time, the best way that they can get in touch with you.

[57:08] Eric :

John : GrantCoin sounds great, man. I'm excited about it.

Eric : Yeah. Thank you, man. This was really great. I think it was a really cool interview, and it seems like you can really see the value in what we're doing. We really appreciate that a lot, because it's kind of tough out there. I mean, most people in the crypto space are pretty skeptical right now, of alt-coins, because there have been so many "pump and dumps" and so many scams...

John : Oh, yeah.

Eric : So we're having to kind of be very pro-active about expressing that we're not like that. We're trying to do things in the right way, like with ethics, and that. So to see somebody like yourself who has one of the premiere podcasts in this space, to be kind of seeing the value in what we're doing, I really am thankful for that, John, and I just can't thank you enough for having us on.

John : Well, thanks guys. You know what? With all of the podcasts on Let's Talk Bitcoin, and podcasts generally, if they're on Soundcloud basically they're archived. So I do have listeners occasionally that'll email me and they'll say, "Wow! I just found your show. I love it! I'm going back and I'm listening to every single one of your shows!" So I can look on Soundcloud, and I can see, 'Hey, an episode I put out, let's say, three weeks ago, over the past week has gotten 75 or 150 listens, or downloads.' So that's good to know that once it's out there - once this show is out there - it's going to be out there, theoretically in perpetuity, forever, so that it's not just the one time that people will hear it, it's as people find out about the show and then go back and listen to the previous shows. I have listeners that have been with me for a while now and they still just go back and listen to shows that they liked, so that's all to say that everything you guys talk about is going to live on for some time.

Eric : That's awesome, John. By the way, I just wanted to quickly say that I went and listened recently to you show about "Will Men be Angels?".

John : Oh, yeah, yeah. I liked that.

[59:07] Eric : That was an awesome one. I loved it, because talking about the whole questions of like transparency and ethics in the crypto space, I just think that it's so important for people to be thinking about those kind of issues, and how these kind of projects are being run. So I really was glad that you see the value in having those kinds of discussions. I just think it's absolutely essential for the future of crypto in general, that all of these projects - whether it's Bitcoin or any other project - that [it] needs to be transparent, and for everybody to be able to see, you know, what are they doing? How are they doing it? Who's making the decisions?

John : MmmHmm.

Eric : It's just so important. I just want to thank you for having that show, because I think that it's just probably the most important issue, in my mind, for the future. Because most people -- you know, when I talk to most normal people about Bitcoin and crypto...

John : MmmHmm.

Eric : Their first reaction is basically like, "Oh yeah. Is that like that ponzi scheme scam? It's like people that are into drugs and crime and all that?"

John : Right. Right. It just confirms how excellent the propaganda machine is that you can talk to intelligent people who maybe are in academia, or maybe who are in tech themselves, you know, [and] who have been to Kenya working with non-profits, [but] as soon as you bring up Bitcoin if they've only heard about it peripherally they're all skeptical, and that just shows [that] we really have a battle to fight. But, you know, even within the Bitcoin world you have people that are so well trained to not be discerning. The freaking Bitcoin Foundation is just such a classic example of -- you know, these guys just basically -- in reality they were basically just flicking the bird to everybody and saying, "We took in all this funding from all these people..." - you know, everybody who was a lifetime member... "We took in all this money, and the money is gone, and fuck you, we're not going to tell you where it went."

[61:14] Eric : [laughter] The money's gone!

John : Yeah. The money's gone, and ...

Eric : Oh, sorry. Too bad, but it's all gone.

John : Yeah. It's amazing that people aren't up-in-arms like saying, "Come on, you sons-of-bitches! Where's the money?" Everyone is like, "Well, that's the Bitcoin Foundation. We don't really have to pressure them to find out where the money is." It's like, are you kidding me? That's the one - of all the organizations in the world - that's the one that we should be looking at the most closely, and demanding that transparency. I know so many people who consider themselves crypto-anarchists, and you-name-it - in terms of what their political slant is - and they're still standing steadfastly by the Bitcoin Foundation, and I'm just asking them, "Do you not see that these guys had some serious ethical problems, and that all of the good people - including Andreas - that we know in the space, have distanced themselves from it for a specific reason, and that reason being transparency - lack of transparency?" It's unbelievable, man. I just really çan't even wrap my mind around it, except to say that people in the Bitcoin sphere are pretty much like people in the normal world. They're just kind of sucked in, and they believe bullshit, because it makes them feel better. It makes them feel comfortable. That's all I can think of, man.

Brandon : And they're invested heavily.

John : Yeah. And!...

Brandon : That's what I think.

Eric : Yeah. They're invested heavily, and it's also an ideological investment.

John : Yes.

Eric : What I think is unfortunate is that there's this tendency, I think, of a lot of people to get tied in with one particular coin, or whatever, and then they just try to defend that coin, and no matter what - even if there's problems going on...

John : Right.

Eric : ...or a particular organization, or whatever - or project. It just seems to me like just like with the internet in the 90s, we don't know which of these coins are going to end up being the top ones. I mean, it's like there was the search engine wars, and the browser wars, and all that. I mean, Bitcoin right now is the thing, but there's no guarantee that like five years from now that Bitcoin is going to be "the" cryptocurrency. It could just be one of like several of them that are the big ones.

[63:16] John : Yeah.

Eric : So I think people need to really just like do due diligence about all of these projects, and just make sure that they're not just succumbing to some kind of an ideological fanaticism, because it's easy for any human being, I think, to get into that trap - like that ideological trap.

Brandon : Yeah.

Eric : You know?

John : I think so.

Brandon : The interview you did with David Schwartz with Ripple like really solidified the differences in communities, in my head, of there is Bitcoin and there's Ripple, and there's communities to both, and they don't interchange with each other.

John : Right.

Brandon : So I think the approach [that] they are tools that should be utilized is so important, and they don't look at Ripple as a tool. Ripple [just wants] to be an exchange platform of fiat in and fiat out.

John : Yeah.

Brandon : That's what it's meant for.

John : Yeah.

Brandon : So I just really appreciated that one.

John : Oh, cool. Yeah, I like that.

Eric : Absolutely.

John : All right fellows. Have a good one.

Brandon : You too. Take care John.

John : All right. See you guys.

Brandon : Thanks John. Appreciate it, bud.

John : Yeah.

Eric : Thank you for having me.

John : Thanks John.

John : You guys take care.

Brandon : Thanks.

John : Bye.

Eric : Bye.


John : I know that it may sound absurd, but I have for you a magic word. Today the magic word is "grant", G - R -A - N -T, as in the sentence, "There are so many people in the world who would benefit from a small grant, or a small loan, to get their own business up off the ground and running, and to improve their quality of life."

[65:06] I would like to thank one of our loyal listeners, Brandon Jason Todd, for the nice email that he sent me this week. He wrote, "Love your show. Glad you took a minute to ask for tips at the end of your show the other day. All this time I thought maybe you were a rich, early-adopter, with tons of cash, just doing the show for fun in early retirement. LOL. Funny where our minds come up with this stuff", he wrote. "Anyway..." he says, "I sent you about $4 in BTC. Hope it helps to keep the lights on and a little coffee in the kettle." [laughter] Well Brandon, sir, I am definitely not a millionaire, or even a "thousand-aire". I may be a "hundred-aire", depending on whether it's a good week or not, or whether or not my mortgage has been paid. Anyway, I certainly appreciate your $4 tip more than you can imagine. I personally tip people in the forums all the time, and I can't really imagine a world now where I don't tip people for the content that they work hard to produce. So if anyone out there listening has never tipped a podcast host, or a blog writer, before, now is the time. When people work hard to produce something that you enjoy listening to, or reading, or viewing, does it even make sense not to tip 50 cents here, or a quarter there, or even a dollar from time to time? [The] bottom line, friends, [is] when you are tipping me, or tipping someone else, this world is a better place when content creators earn tips. In simple terms, it keeps them motivated and let's them know [that] you really appreciate the work they do. So show your appreciation, folks, and tip all of the content creators that you can. It doesn't matter if it's five cents, or ten cents, or a dollar. What matters is that you're showing them your appreciation, and not just taking and running away. We're adults and so we need to tip people when they produce valuable content, right? All right, so moving right along.

[67:03] I'd like to thank my guests on today's show : Brandon, Eric, and Jon, the founders of GrantCoin. GrantCoin offers 100% transparency as it works to incentivise a sustainable economy, and environment, around the globe. Check them out at . Signing off now from East Nashville, Tennessee, this is John Barrett with Bitcoins & Gravy, here with my trusty Siberian Husky Maxwell. Say "Goodbye" Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grrrrrr.....

John : We will see everyone next week. Thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for your tips, and remember, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men - and women - to do nothing.

[music and lyrics to “Ode to Satoshi” song]

John Barrett : Now climb aboard y’all! This train is bound for glory… and there’s plenty of room for all…

“Well Satoshi Nakamoto, that's a name I love to say, And we don't know much about him, but he came to save the day. When he wrote about the way things are, And the way things ought to be, He gave us all a protocol this world had never seen.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[guitar instrumental]

Down the road it will be told about the Death of Old Mount Gox, About traders trading alter coins, and miners mining blocks. But them good old boys back in Illinois, And on down through Tennessee, See they don't care to be a millionaire, They're just wanting to be free.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[69:10] [instrumental interlude]

From the ghettos of Calcutta, to the halls of Parliament, While the bankers count our money out for every government. Oh, Bitcoin flies on through the skies of virtuality, A promise to deliver us from age-old tyranny.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name. Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your -- "Give me some exposure" -- Everybody knows your name.

Singing, Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord, before I have to go. Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord . . . before I have to . . . Go . . .

[instrumental finale] [applause]

John : Oh-ho! Thank you East Nashville! Y’all be good to each other out there, ya’ hear?

[Voice of] Andreas Antonopoulos : We have front row seats in the development of a historic technology that is doing things that have never been done before, and every day that goes by I just feel amazed at having this opportunity to be front-line observer - and sometimes influencer - in what is turning out to be, perhaps, a historic, generational, worldwide, impactful, disruptive change in technology; one that will create history.

[71:24] And that is an amazing feeling.