Bitcoins and Gravy #71 : “The Bitcoin Trader Venzen Speaks” (Transcript)

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[0:00] John Barrett (Announcer and Host): Welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy, Episode #71. At the time of this recording Bitcoins are trading at $259.00 dollars each, and everybody’s favorite, LTBCoin, is trading at $0.000094 US dollars each. Mmm…Mmm…Mmm! Now THAT’S gravy!

[Intro music]

John : Welcome to "Bitcoins and Gravy", and thanks for joining me today as I podcast from East Nashville, Tennessee, with my trusty dog, Maxwell, by my side. Say "Hello!", Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grrrrr…..

John : We’re two Bitcoin enthusiasts who love talking about Bitcoins, and sharing what we learn with you, the listener. Long time listeners, thank you so much for your generous tips, and new listeners, we hope you enjoy the show.

[intro music concludes]

On today's show I travel to the remote coastal village of Krabi, in Thailand, to speak with Bitcoin trader, Venzen Khaosan.

[1:03] Venzen is a market analyst, and trader, with over six years of experience in stocks, Forex and commodities trading. After completing school, he studied anthropology at the University of Cape Town, South Africa, and became interested in the pre-14th century Indian Ocean trade routes that connected Southern African gold supplies with South East Asian porcelain and bead industries. This led him on to research in how cultures perceive value, and the nuances of market psychology. Venzen divides his year between Africa and Southeast Asia, and writes daily Bitcoin market updates for the Bitcoin trading community, ""


John : All right, listeners, today on the show, finally, I am speaking with a Bitcoin trader. I am traveling all the way to Thailand to meet with Venzen Khaosan. Venzen divides his year between Africa and Southeast Asia, and writes daily Bitcoin market updates for the Bitcoin trading community, "". Venzen, welcome to Bitcoins & Gravy.

[2:19] Venzen : Thank you very much. [I'm] pleased to be here.

John : Yes, it's great to have you. So, [laughter] before we started the interview I think I heard a rooster in the background. Was that a rooster?

Venzen : [laughter] That's a rooster. There are three of them. That's the way I wake up every more, and you and me being on opposite sides of time zones right now, I'm having roosters while you're having the sounds of going to sleep.

John : [laughter] Right, so it's 6:06 pm here, and it's just after 6:00 am there in Thailand. Now, what city are you in?

Venzen : I'm actually not in a city. I'm in the south of Thailand, on the Andaman coast, which is on the Indian Ocean, and I'm in a little village called Krabi.

John : Wow! That sounds nice. Is it beautiful there?

Venzen : It is very beautiful. It’s a picturesque place. Most of the media images that you're going to see of Southern Thailand is what I have here. Right now I've got the sun coming up right behind the palm trees behind.

John : That sounds so nice. I wish I was there [laughter]. I wish we could trade places. [laughter]

Venzen : Let's trade Bitcoin.

John : [laughter] There you go. I like it. I like it. So let's get on with it. You are a Bitcoin trader, and I have so many questions to ask you. I know you have so much to talk about, but let's start with - first of all - how did you get into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to start with? What lead you here in your life, and how long have you been here, living and working in the Bitcoin sphere?

[4:00] Venzen : John, it started for me - an interest in economics - came to me in a very strange way, because I was actually into humanities studies. When I was a young man at university I studied anthropology. I was studying at the University of Capetown, and you know, African archeology and anthropology is alive with examples [of] the root of all humanity. In studying that I came across one of my modules, [which] was about Indian Ocean trade route, and in exploring this I was absolutely fascinated, because I learned about connections between Southeast Asia - where I am now - and Africa - where I [grew up] as a young man, and where I was studying. [I learned] that there had been a connection 1,000 and 2,000 years ago, of people trading, and the origin - one of the major reasons for the trade - was gold that was being mined in Southern Africa, even back then in that time.

[5:08] Venzen : As you know, South Africa was - during the 70s and 80s - a major producer of gold. It's since gone down, because many of those [sources of] gold seem to have been fully exploited, you know?

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : In developing this interest in trade [I] learned about where the gold was going, and that beads were coming into Africa. So people [in Africa] were - and gold seams were exposed back in those days - they were literally picking up gold and trading it on the [East] coast of Africa, for beads, because they did not have the raw materials, or the technology, to make glass beads but they could easily get rid of gold as a trade commodity, which they did not really prize themselves. They didn't care about the gold.

[6:00] They wanted the beads. [This] got me thinking about value, how do cultures ascribe value, and how to products move from areas of high availability to areas of low availability. You know, we talk about this thing about things being exotic, and so the gold price had, through centuries, just climbed and climbed and climbed. In my becoming active as a trader, about six or seven years ago, I had -- you know, [once] you're in trade gold is always an instrument that is available, and it's attractive because its chart moves. You might get moves of $10 and $20 in a day. Every trader will grow through that phase where they try out commodities because of their sheer range of movement, and the profit that you can see. [But] there is a lot of loss on those kind of moves, too, if you're on the wrong side of it.

John : Right.

[7:00] Venzen : In about March or April in 2012 I received a newsletter from one of the [technical] services I was subscribing to, and they said, "Hey, have a look at this chart. It's this thing called “Bitcoin”, and it's gone from $33 dollars [to] $66 or $80." I was absolutely fascinated, and I thought to myself, 'I've got to learn more about this thing.' Well, about a year passed and that had been just after the rally to $260 in April, and that is when I truly became involved and engrossed, because I could then download the client, and I could install it. I could get my hands on my first Bitcoins, and I really saw potential in the chart, but more than that I was fascinated by cryptocurrency.

John : MmmHmm.

[8:00] Venzen : It even got me to learn C++...

John : Oh, wow!

Venzen : ... so that I could interact with this thing.

John : Wow.

Venzen : So that is how I came to Bitcoin.

John : So you were a trader before Bitcoin came along. What lead you into trading, in your life, from a humanities background? Was it just the fascination with being able to make money?

Venzen : I think that every person has got a speculative aspect to their personality. I think it is human nature to want to speculate, and to benefit from applying one's intelligence - whether it is selling "sweeties" on a corner stall, or whether it is trading gold, or whether it is buying a house and then later selling it for profit.

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : I think that is human nature, and in my particular case it had been a profit-motive of being interesting in turning profit, especially after I had become interested in Indian Ocean trade, and see the value exchange, and see the potential for having products that are considered commonplace in one part of the world - and that are bountiful - and moving them to a part of the world where they're considered exotic and less bountiful.

[9:16] John : Hmm.

Venzen : It was thinking about that as a young man that then eventually lead me to open an trading account and start trading currencies - you know, what we call FOREX. Now I wanted to ... “Well, the Euro is going to go up this and that reason, and I [want] to trade it versus the dollar ...”

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Then you start learning about the market forces. You're forced to read financial news. You start reading economics, and you start to identify trends, and so on. [You] also learn what is a trader, and how does a trader think?

John : Hmm.

Venzen : That was the journey for me, really, and I think it doesn't stop. It's not a state you reach where you're fully developed. I think every trader would say that it's about putting good rules in place for doing your thing.

[10:11] John : So not just responding to fear and greed, but actually learning to understand markets, and learning to understand yourself and how you fit in with being patient, and how you fit into it to it with being intelligent and not being hasty. Basically, just having a good, broad view of it, and not making stupid decisions that cause you to make money, I guess.

Venzen : As you say, I think the fascinating thing about trading - and I think a lot of cryptocurrency traders discover that from purely buying and selling - later you discover that there are ways to multiply those winnings and those losses via a margin trading, and applying leverage to your trade. Then all of those thing you just mentioned come into play. Greed is multiplied. Fear is multiplied. Hope is multiplied.

[11:05] John : Hmm.

Venzen : In the end, the fascinating thing about trading is that you learn about your own emotions, and your own personal impulses that drive you to do things. Does that make sense?

John : Absolutely. You know what? I think what I learned, when I did some trading early on - with cryptocurrencies, or alt-currencies, alt-coins, and Bitcoin - what I learned early on was that it scared the hell out of me [laughter]. That was, that whenever I would make a move, to buy a little or sell a little, I was always doing the exact opposite of what I should have done. I had mastered it. So, then I took the stance of, well, I think George Costanza did this one time on Seinfeld. He said, "Everything I do in my life is wrong, so I'm going to start to do the opposite of what I normally do." [Then] he started doing the opposite of what he thought he should normally do, and things were working out great for him.

Venzen : [laughter]

John : So I tried to do that. It's like second-guessing, you know? I can defeat feat. I can conquer fate. I can be the master of fate, and still - even doing the opposite of what I thought I should do - I realized, 'Wow! I lost again! I lost again!

[12:12] I never lost big, thankfully. [That] may be a testament to either my intelligence or my paranoia, or both.'

Venzen : [laughter]

John : But, you know, my fear, at times, was greater than my greed, and that maybe is a safer place to be than letting your greed just grip you, and take you onto the road of poverty. I did not do it for very long, and I just resolved early on [that] I am not a Bitcoin trader, and I do not have the aptitude. I didn't have the stomach for it, and maybe part of that is that I didn't have the patience for it.

Venzen : You know, patience is the key, and should you ever come back to trading - which I think every person interested in Bitcoin is trading, whether they like it or not -- or well, maybe "like" perhaps [is] not the right word. Whether they realize it or not they are applying assumptions about the market by saying, "I'm going to buy Bitcoin now." or "I'm going to sell Bitcoin now."

[13:09] John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Even just in their personal wallet, that is trading, and I think that it is something that all people should be comfortable with, and I think it's something that people can learn some good practices and best practices of running Bitcoin in your own wallet involves learning some basic rules of trade. As you had said, patience is the key, and there [is] various [wisdom] around that. One of them is that, in trading, patience is your friend and impulse is your enemy - exactly as you had mentioned. I actually received a message from a trader yesterday afternoon, who asked me, "If Bitcoin keeps going up and up..." - and is this time that we were talking is the time of the Greek default looming, and this trader told me, "Bitcoin just keeps going up and up! Shall I jump in?" I said to him, "Don't jump in. This is the impulse talking. What is your patience telling you?"

[14:12] You see? So we're all prone to this things, and you said: Thank God you never lost faith. As a trader, and somebody who had started from not having been trained as a trader - and not having studied economics - I had certainly learned the ropes by losing big.

John : Oh, no!

Venzen : I've had to lose big a few times in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's the way you learn, so if one has got the prudence never to play too big I think that is an important key that every Bitcoin owner, and every Bitcoin enthusiast, and every trader out there, can take to task -- Do not play too big.

John : I agree. I think that's sound advice. I think my regrets these days are that, for instance, when Litecoins were up to $40 each, or Bitcoin was up to [over] $1,200, that I didn't sell some and realize that profit, and take some of those winnings - or some of those earnings - and pay off some debt.

[15:09] But I held, thinking, 'Well, LiteCoin's at $40. Certainly, it's going to go to $100.' [laughter], and 'Bitcoin's at $1,200. Certainly it's going to go to $12,000.' So I was afraid to sell because it would possibly go higher, and I was greedy, thinking that, 'Well, of course it's going to go higher, and I'm going to be able to make more money down the road.' So I still feel that fear and greed stopped me from selling, maybe when they were at their all-time high. We can talk about that in a minute. So what - in your opinion - what happened with Bitcoin in 2013? What caused that crash from $1,200?

Venzen : You know, these words you mentioned : "fear" and "greed" and "hope" and "exuberance", it is so strange how human psychology, works and this is what drives the charge.

[16:02] You know, a lot people think -- if you read the popular media you might get people saying that, "Well, the block rewards are halving, so miners are not driving the Bitcoin price as much." Or people believe that we've now got Dell and Overstock accepting Bitcoin, so surely now the price is going to rally, because they believe that merchants are driving the price. What I would say, in response to what you'd said earlier, is that it is fear, and greed, and hope, and exuberance that drives the chart, and as you’d also mentioned, one is often out of sync with what the price chart is doing, and what you're feeling - what your psychology is telling you. One is often exactly at the opposite end of what is happening.

John : Hmm.

Venzen : When it is high you think it's going to go higher. When it is low you think, "Oh, surely it's going to go down more." and you sell.

John : [laughter]

Venzen : You know, so as you say: Why had you not sold at $1,200? Then, I know one developer who had mined Bitcoins in 2011, and he had sold at that high of $33 per Bitcoin, and he sold 50,000 Bitcoins...

[17:22] John : [laughter]

Venzen : ... and two years later he was asking himself, 'Why was I so scared back then?'

John : Hmm.

Venzen : So these are the kind of emotions that drive us...

John : Whew!

Venzen : ...and drive the path. Yeah, [it's an] incredible story, and I think there are a lot of them out there. You had asked me, 'What had happened in 2013?', and I had spoken about [how] our psychology is out of whack with what's happening in the market, and this is absolutely amazing. I think those are basic human responses, and the chart just draws everyone along. It draws everyone along, and people make these decisions, and move the chart.

[18:00] In 2013 Bitcoin had gone to $260 during April, and that had been its highest price at the time, wasn't it? That was absolutely amazing. I mean, that was a rally that no one had ever witnessed. No commodity - [and] no price chart - had ever done that. You know, gold had gone from $200 to $320 during the 90s - the 1990s somewhere – and people were like, “Wow! Gold is really rallying. That’s a move!” But Bitcoin did that in a few weeks. You know?

John : HmmMmm.

Venzen : Not over a space of years. So that was absolutely amazing. It then came down, and I don't know if you recall that at the time - in 2013 - there was a lot of concern, suddenly, about regulation. Do you remember that?

John : Yes.

Venzen : Yeah. That was the hot topic - regulation and banning. Suddenly, people were starting to write fearful articles about it, and everyone was talking about it, and all of us thought about it. I think that it was Silk Road at that time [that] was big in the news, and some of the Bitcoin developers had gone and explained to the FBI, and law enforcement agencies, what Bitcoin is, and how it works, and that [minute it was all sunny], and FinSen was out there, so there was suddenly all of this official interest in Bitcoin. Now, those authorities, and those centralized bodies, did not yet understand that Bitcoin was censorship resistance, right?

John : Right.

Venzen : And Bitcoin users - the average user, who was not a developer, and wasn't familiar with the protocol, or with peer-to-peer, necessarily - did not realize that it was absolutely censorship resistant.

[20:07] So all of this concern about regulation, and about banning of Bitcoin at that time, was founded on ignorance, shall we say, and the Bitcoin community still had to learn that this thing was, in a way, untouchable, right?

John : Yes. I think it was founded on ignorance, but of course, those people at the top, who try to control how people think - how the masses think - certainly they were briefed very quickly by some really intelligent people working for them in tech, and they were informed, very quickly, "We can't censor this. Period." I think they found that out in the first couple of months, and therefore the only thing they could do was to move forward with a misinformation campaign that I think ran parallel to the truth that most people didn't understand that it could not be censored. So I think that misinformation, and that misunderstanding, were neck-and-neck there.

[21:08] Venzen : Yeah. Well observed. I think you are summarizing it very well, and that indeed was the case. As you describe it I can see it. They were huffing and puffing while people were thinking they were in a house of straw, but they were in a house of bricks.

John : Yes. [laughter]

Venzen : Yeah, and did you notice in the chart that Bitcoin had kind of hit a low during [around] June of 2013, and then it started climbing, and it reached something like $120 from $60, and then it kind of traveled straight for a few months, in a kind of quiet market period. Then suddenly it dropped, and that drop coincided, at that time, with the bust of Silk Road.

John : MmmHmm.

[22:00] Venzen : So what is funny to me about that - and how it reveals psychology - is it does not matter that Silk Road got busted, and it does not matter that people thought that Bitcoin was vulnerable to these authorities - the minute that Silk Road got busted it is as if the whole Bitcoin community - the whole user base - as if they were busted...

John : Right. [laughter]

Venzen : ... and they reacted by selling Bitcoin, right?

John : Yeah. [laughter]

Venzen : Yeah, because it's like,"Oh my God! The Feds are at the door!"

John : [laughter]

Venzen : Then they sold their Bitcoins, and nothing happened. There were people waiting with their orders down at those lows, and they started buying in. That rally did not stop from October the 5th [2013], I believe, until November 24th [2013] - or maybe it was later on November 28th [2013]. That rally did not stop, and it was phenomenal. The world had never seen that before, and there certainly isn't any price chart with that kind of move in it.

John : HmmMmm.

[23:00] Now, what happens at the end of November, again, is a regulation event. People say that China had banned Bitcoin - or the "People's Bank Of China" had imposed regulation on Bitcoin - and that is what crashed the price from there. Now I had studied that chart very carefully at that point in time, and what is interesting is that the regulation [news] from China only comes in three days after the market had made a top. In other words, the market was already declining by the time the People's Bank Of China sent out announcement that they were going to stop Bitcoin from being freely traded by certain businesses and banks.

John : It's funny how - with everything you're talking about - how those three days in the minds of most people don't matter. Because, you know, from Monday to Wednesday to Thursday of a given week, that happens really quickly [laughter], but three days is pretty substantial, with what you're referring to.

[24:00] Venzen : Especially if you're looking at the chart, and you're identifying the price waves as they come down, in a very textbook fashion, [and] you say, "This is a decline in force." It's nowhere else in that rally. Then suddenly, after three days, [the] big news about China and then the market really drops, and people associate the two as happening around the same time. Absolutely.

John : Right. So what do you think caused the drop?

Venzen : The one that I can see clearly in the chart is that there had been a “Relative Strength Index peak in late November, and a few days later the market made a higher high, but the "RSI" - the Relative Strength Index, which is an indicator that a lot of traders would be familiar with, and one gets them on most charts - the RSI makes a lower high. It doesn't confirm that high in the Bitcoin price, and I think a lot of traders -- I think a lot of the big money that was circulating on Bitcoin on that particular rally, saw that technical indication, and said, "It's time to take profit."

John : HmmMmm.

[25:06] Venzen : That is something I can identify. I think, also, the figure $1,200 or $1,160 is psychologically significant, and had caused a lot of people to say, "Whoa! This has gone very far."

John : What is your take on how the price went up so high, because a lot of people believe that it had to do with the trading bots there are Mount Gox, [and] that this was falsely inflated, and that Bitcoin was never worth anywhere near $1,000, and that the trading bots, "Willy" - and whatever the other name was - had something to do with it. What do you think?

Venzen : You know, John. I've encountered that argument a few times, and it was quite popular back then, and as somebody involved with markets and with charts for a long time, the price waves that unfold in every market are similar, and they are visible across markets since markets began.

[26:10] You know? If you look at a price chart from the 1940s, or you look at a price chart of rice being traded in Japan - back in the 1800s, or 1700s -the price charts always look the same. Bitcoin's price chart is the same as every other chart that went before it. The thing that is amazing about Bitcoin's price chart is only that it is faster, and it is more extreme. But the proportion between prior waves and later waves are consistent with all price charts. So I do not think there is any irregularity in the price chart, or in the movements in the price chart. And certainly you say, 'We don't know what will happen in the future.' According to what's already printed in the chart Bitcoin is going to go much, much, higher.

[27:02] Venzen : I would put it above $10,000, easily, down the line. We don't know when that will be, but that is certainly possible. As for the notion that those were trading bots that had pushed the price up there, well, one can speculate that the exchanges were applying - or were running - fractional reserves, and therefore they could keep inflating the price, and that those trading bots - those algorithms - were introducing fake Bitcoins into the price chart, or that the price chart was simply being picked up with no real money behind it.

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : But I don't think there is sufficient evidence for that kind of statement. I would rather say that the market cap of Bitcoin - which I believe is somewhere around $3.5 billion US dollars ...

[28:01] John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : ... I think is sufficient to cause that kind of price movement, especially if one looks at how attractive Bitcoin is as a speculative instrument. Imagine that you're a hedge fund, or that you're a bank trader - [or] any trader, for that matter, but specifically a hedge fund trader - you learn about a commodity that can move $100 in a day. That is unheard of. You hear about a commodity that is unregulated -- in other words, there is no body, there is no SEC, [or] there is no London metal exchange that oversees, and controls, and manipulates its price. And you also learn that there is no central authority on this peer-to-peer Bitcoin. That is a speculator’s wildest dream come true, because it means [that] what you put in will reflect in your chart.

[29:00] John : HmmMmm. Yes.

Venzen : And I think when a rally grips an instrument -- when it grips Bitcoin like it did, or it does with gold, or with the Australian dollar - it starts moving, and people pile in. All the evidence is there, but that is human psychology that formed that wave up. It was exuberance, and it was all of the hope that people had suddenly seen in Bitcoin, I believe, at that time. All of that hope, and all of that exuberance, [had] been so extreme that we then got the subsequent 18 month decline, you know...

John : Yes.

Venzen : Which is, kind of, like 'What goes up must come down.'

John : It's very exciting to think that if we see this exuberance - if what you say is true - [if] we see this exuberance happening again, and we see the price going up a little bit now - we see it going up to $500 and $1,000, then $2,000, and $5,000 - that would be a very exciting time.

[30:00] Of course, we would then see a crash, as we're going to see the peaks and the valleys all the way up to - you know, if it could go up to $10,000, obviously that's going to be a series of peaks and valleys. The idea of that exuberance is a very exciting idea. Now what about the idea, that a lot of people propose, that there are whales that are controlling things? So, for instance, let's say that Satoshi Nakamoto is still alive? We don't know that, right? Satoshi may not exist, and Satoshi's Bitcoin may be in wallets that only Satoshi knew how to access, and they may be locked in those wallets until the end of time - forever, right? But let's say that Satoshi is still around, and Satoshi is watching what's going on. Well, Satoshi would be smart enough - I like to think - to have figured out a way to have 20,000 trading bots trading all of Satoshi's wealth in Bitcoin, and trading as 20,000 individual traders, spread out over all of these exchanges and looking like 20,000 individuals trading, such that Satoshi - or whoever he might work with -- he, she, it, they - sets this up so that this trading happens in a way that looks natural, and yet it has the ability to move the markets to make it really go up - the price - and to make the price, then, really go down. Is that a possibility?

[31:25] Venzen : This is a possibility. I mean, it is fantastical.

John : [laughter]

Venzen : It involves a lot of coordination. It involves a lot of interaction between disparate bodies. It is a grand plan, but certainly somebody could orchestrate that if they're a central figure, [and] if they had thought of this plan from the start. I see it as possible indeed, but I think there's more evidence for other market forces, and other ways, that value is being ascribed to Bitcoin, and if you don't mind I can talk about that...

[32:10] John : Sure.

Venzen : ...and it will cause some like - what you're talking about - "whales".

John : Yes.

Venzen : Well, let's talk about a fundamental analysis of Bitcoin. Now, in analyzing markets one can [often] take three points of view. There is, what they call, the "three pillars of market analysis". The three are : "sentimental analysis". You know, if somebody is positive towards a stock, or towards a currency, and the positive sentiment is shared by a lot of people, people can buy into that, and then the price will go up. Another is "technical analysis". For example, you can see that Bitcoin goes down to a certain level and then it goes up again. Then, whenever it returns to that same level people start buying in.

John : MmmHmm.

[33:00] Venzen : So there is a technical price level at which people come in. Or, if there is a peak in the rally, and then your RSI indicator doesn't confirm the high, that is a technical indication to sell. One can analyze charts from that perspective. You can also analyze an instrument, or a commodity, or a currency, from the point-of-view of its fundamental value. You know, they often speak of "the books" - a company's “books” - reflecting its fundamental value.

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : These are sort of terms that everyone is familiar with, but if we look at Bitcoin's fundamental value it is fascinating, because there is no other commodity money with this kind of fundamentals. It is cryptographically secure. It [involves] mathematically provable consensus, [and] it has got a set, [limited], supply over time, and so on, and so on...

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Plus the fact that is it censorship resistant, and decentralized in a peer-to-peer infrastructure, just means that the Bitcoin fundamentals are so strong that whatever valuation one puts on Bitcoin will never be enough, because the Bitcoin fundamentals are so strong that this is useful from a monetary point-of-view, this is useful from a transactional point-of-view, it is useful from a contracts point-of-view, and it's useful from a social point-of-view, because if we look at how the blockchain is going to change our world a lot of the value of Bitcoin has not expressed itself yet - at least, the value of the blockchain.

John : Very true.

Venzen : Yeah. So with that kind of perspective one can then see, "Well, does it need for somebody to manipulate its price up to $1,000 and up to $5,000?"

[35:05] John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : I think not. I think that this is a natural consequence of Bitcoin having this value to speculators and to society in general. So I believe the price movement in the chart is real. It is subject to massive speculation, and then one gets to the topic of “whales”. I think there are whales. Some of them can be identified..


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Venzen : I think a lot of people our there don't really know the nuts and bolts of how trades happen, because for us as just individuals trading, you think, "Well, I'm going to buy now, and then when it's up I'm going to sell."

[37:06] [Or] if you're short-trading you say, "Okay. I'm going to sell, and then I'll wait three hours, or I'll wait three weeks, and then I'll buy in again, and make my profit on the price behind."

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : That's kind of our personal interaction with the market. But then there are guys who are dolphins, you know. They have a lot of financial resources. It might be an individual, or it might be three guys who put their money together and form a club, and they might say, "Right. Let's buy when these conditions become true in the chart." Then suddenly you see an order in the exchange order book of 1,000 Bitcoins, and everyone is like, "Oh my word! That is [so big!] Things are happening in the Bitcoin market!"

John : [laughter]

Venzen : You know? But behind the scenes there are hedge funds, and bank traders, and many large players who are so large, [and] purchase and sell so much Bitcoin that they cannot just do it all in one go, right?

[38:13] So they've got to disguise their presence, because the Bitcoin market is fragile because it's only small. The liquidity - the amount of capital, in the exchanges, and in the Bitcoin market - is actually quite small compared to a lot of market instruments out there. So with it being fragile these very large players cannot just reveal their hand, or play everything at the same time, because they could destroy the market and scare a lot of smaller traders away, and that is counterproductive, right? You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot. You want to preserve your Bitcoin market, even if you're the largest play.

John : Okay.

Venzen : So what they do is to enter the market with very small trades over very long periods of time.

[39:01] Now, when I say "long periods of time" and "small trades" the trades might be for 0.1 Bitcoin, and for 10,000 of those over three weeks. You know, when I say "a long time" [I mean] maybe three weeks, [or] maybe three months. This is how they can slowly enter, and they use bots to do that work for them, and slowly they will enter the market when they think it's an opportune time to start buying. They might have communication with some other "whales" and say, "Right. In September, or in January, we all start buying... You take profit at $500, and we'll wait for the dip and then take profit when it goes up to $700 after that."

John : Hmm!

Venzen : You see? So these are the kinds of dynamics that are happening in the market, behind the scenes, and people often say, "Oh, no!" You know, when these things come to light that there are bots active in the market [they] say, "Oh, no! It's manipulated, and there are non-human entities who are pushing this thing."

[40:11] John : Uh-huh... [laughter]

Venzen : But after all, the chart conforms to how human psychology makes the chart. It's only that these guys are, sort of, buying all in one go, and spiking the price chart, and dropping back down. They enter slowly over a period of time, and then the rest of the market kind of fills in and follows, and you've got these price waves, and that is what we observe in the chart, and that is quite normal and healthy, I would say.

John : Wow! That's fascinating to hear that inside look at it, because like you said, I think most people who trade a little bit - you know, like when I was trading early on - you try to buy when it's low, and you try to sell when it's a little higher, and make a little bit of money. You're waiting a week or two or three, and you're hoping it's going up, or going down, and you're not really thinking about anything except your own little world.

[41:04] I think for people who want to be successful at trading, I think they have to take your philosophy, and they have to be patient, and they have to really be willing to understand what's going on, and to be able to see the signs. I don't have that patience, and I think most people don't, and I think probably there are a lot more little, teeny - and also, medium-sized losses - than there are little, teeny - and medium-sized - gains.

Venzen : I think you're right. In order to trade successfully one really has to have a winning formula, and you discover it by making mistakes in the market, and learning what works and what doesn't work. Then you also have to have rules and patience to say, 'In these conditions I will not trade. Only when these conditions come true...' It might mean that you don't trade for three months, and simply watch the chart.

John : Hmm...

Venzen : It's applying that kind of discipline, and in order to apply that discipline you've got to know what you're doing, and to know what you're doing you've got to make mistakes in the market to learn.

[42:05] The irony of speculation, and learning how to speculate, is that you can only do it by losing money, because if you make a mistake in the market you pay.

John : Right.

Venzen : You know. So it's a cycle that requires some resources. That's why I said a while ago, "Don't play big." You're going to lose in the market as you learn, so play small, and when you find your winning formula [is] when you increase the stakes.

John : I like it, and I like the fact that early on you said that you are still learning, [and] you do not feel like you've learned everything there is to learn. Having said that, as a Bitcoin trader, would you put yourself in the category of being a "Bitcoin trader expert"?

Venzen : You know, to wear the mantle of the expert I do not like to put that on myself - to don the mantle and say "I am an expert."

[43:03] I would say that in my role in - as the, kind of, lead analyst [who then has] all of the members contribute to the analysis and say, "I don't agree with this aspect. Can we look at that?" [Then] they present their analysis. In this collaborative kind of way the "expertise" melts away, because more heads make for better thinking, right?

John : Yes.

Venzen : So to answer your question I refrain from calling myself an expert, but certainly a lot of people do refer to me as an expert, but I would not call myself "the expert". I am one, of many, to put it that way.

John : Okay, I think that's well put. So you write weekly articles for the Bitcoin market, and updates, of course, for the Bitcoin trading community - as we mentioned - for Tell our listeners - if you would - why they might want to get involved with, and what they can expect when they first get there, and if there are ways - through - [that they] can learn, and start trading slowly, as you advise, with small amounts. What kind of a resource is for people who would like to get into trading Bitcoin?

[44:30] Venzen : You know, in stating your question you described very well. I'm just going to fill out, and give you my answer. The first thing is that is a domain name, so you can plant that in a browser, XBT.soclal, and it will take you to the web site. It is a subscription service, so that anyone can join. It's $95.00 per month, I believe, the way it was set up. There's currently a discount code available at

[45:11] People can subscribe and put in their discount code, and what they will get in return is membership of, whereby they receive market updates every three hours, [and] they receive long-term analysis, so that we form a picture of, 'Where is the market heading?', 'Where is it at the moment, the Bitcoin market?', and 'What are the scenarios that are open that are probable in the future - in the next month, in the next three months, and in the next three years?'

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : From this perspective it is not a forecasting service, it is not a trade signaling service, it is a service to explore the probabilities in the chart, and then get everyone to input, and once there is a consensus we start formulating a trade plan.

[46:08] So, people will get the benefit of resources on the site - as I said before, the various analyses. They will get knowledge about how the exchanges work, in terms of : placing your orders, using margin, applying leverage to your trades - so you can multiply your winnings - [plus] how to safely enter trades, and rules for trading. There is so much to it, but in a nutshell, those will give them a good foundation from which to trade, and then they're not along, because they're in a forum with a lot of other traders who are taking the same trades, you see?

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : So [I think] the idea is really good. The person who came up with it was David Parker, a newspaperman who had started CCN (CryptoCions News).

[47:01] I was doing analysis for him, and he said to me, "Why don't we offer this? Away from all the chatter that you have in the discuss/comments section at the bottom of your article we can have those people who are really interested take this forward and actually make those trades that become apparent." He is the guy that set up, and I think it's a good idea, and I think it works very well, because it's not like people are paying for a prediction that might be true or might not be true. What we're doing is we're setting up trades for different scenarios. So, in other words, with this Greece default looming the market can do a few things. We've tried to identify them, and we started formulating trades for each outcome.

John : Okay. Do you think that somebody -- because there are people out there that don't have $95.00 a month – but do you think [that] for someone who wants to learn [that] they could subscribe for one month, [for] $95.00 - and just be an active participant for one month. Do you feel that one month of being with would be of benefit? Could they learn enough in one month so that they don't have to month, after month, after month, keep putting out, essentially, $100 a month? Because, again, a lot of people simply cannot afford that.

[48:19] Venzen : By anybody's standard that is a lot of money every month. The point [is] - and to answer your question - is : Yes. They can subscribe for one month. There is no obligation to stay on and have to pay that, and they will - in one month - be able to read all of those resources, and get a feeling for the way that good, safe trading is practiced, and we also have a method outlined - a method that I came up with for the Bitcoin chart, that I didn't discover, but that was there, and nobody else was using it [so] I formulated it into a method called "the moving average".

[49:00] It's a trading method for Bitcoin. They will be able to have access to that, and comprehend it, and apply it away from So yes, it is not a service that seeks to trap anybody, or keep them there from month to month. If they want to stay on, of course, they're welcome, and the more heads the better.

John : Okay.

Venzen : But they will certainly be able to join for one month and get full value out [of it], and I believe they will make more than their $100 in a month, you know, to justify paying for the next month.

John : Okay. That's encouraging. I always to look out for my listeners. It has happened on the show before in the past that I have recommended certain things that ended up being not-so-great, such as Bitcoin Trader, that company that ended up ripping people off.

Venzen : Yeah. [laughter]

John : But listen, I have two more questions before we go. [The] first question [is] : How is the situation in Greece - the situation right now, currently - affecting Bitcoin, in your opinion?

[50:00] Venzen : Oh my goodness! That was very unexpected, and I'm sure you were surprised by the way that Greece had turned the tables on its creditors. It's creditors, who might seem like a nebulous group of people, [are] not a secret group. Its creditors are well-known banks. Its creditors are the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank, and also the European Commission. Those are the people who are squeezing the Greek people for more taxes, for a retirement age of 67 years old, and who want to increase the value-added tax rate on every purchase in every part of Greece...

John : The Troika! The Troika! The Troika! The Troika! [Venzen], let me tell you, I was not surprised, because I'd been listening to Yannis for months, and did a semi-interview with him months back. I've been listening to him, and I've been following it fairly closely, and this was not a surprise to me at all. This is what I expected.

[51:13] Venzen : Well, you've got your ear to the ground, and you've then got eyes to see, because that situation, I think, surprised the IMF.

John : [laughter]

Venzen : And it surprised the European Central Bank, because they thought they had Greece in a corner, and they were squeezing and squeezing for more - for tougher austerity - until it became cruel.

John : Yes.

Venzen : Greece, with an elected socialist government, and a populist leader who could not afford that - as a politician he could not afford to make those kind of concessions and expect to have his career live on. So [that] Syriza party had just turned the tables. It happened last Saturday, didn't it?

John : MmmHmm.

[52:01] Venzen : And now we're facing a voluntary - and a defiant - default by Greece [in] a decision on Sunday, and I think the effect on the Bitcoin price is clear in that the moment that announcement came over the wire the price started increasing, and it started rallying in wave after wave. Now the waves are still small, and one might speculate that they can end soon. You know, we don't know what's coming next. It's not possible to predict future events with any degree of certainty that would help you trade it.

John : Right.

Venzen : But I think the effect is there in the chart, in that it is going up, because people are either fleeing to Bitcoin as a safe haven, or some of the "big money", and a lot of Bitcoin users, are saying, "This is a period of uncertainty that has now started, and there's no game plan for it."

John : MmmHmm.

[53:02] Venzen : "... and being in Bitcoin in the timeline of this is a good idea, because Bitcoin has proven - for the last six months - that it doesn't want to go lower." It has kept a base there at $215, [or] around there, and I think that market has now got the sense that, with world events, it's safe to invest in Bitcoin, and I would say it's desirable.

John : I think so too, and it looks to me like a lot of people in the Bitcoin world - if they're aware of what's going on in Greece - they can see, "Wow, this taking the middle finger and holding it up to the Troika, is essentially the same thing that Bitcoin does to central banks." It flips the bird, and it says, "Look, we're tired of being bullied! We're tired of being kept down by you, because this is something that's been going on since the beginning of time, and we are now wanting to cut those ties that tether us down. We want to rise up. We want to fly. We want to be free." I love the fact that it's Greece that's doing this, right?

[54:12] Venzen : Yeah. It's the birthplace of western civilization that is also changing western civilization [and] evolving it. Yeah. I see that, and I also think it's emboldening [and] it's encouraging. I think Bitcoin's potential, and its place, in the “Kingdom of Doing”, and for "People Power" I think it's got an important role to play, and it's reflected in the price chart.

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : I think sometime it's not reflected in the price chart, but when things go wrong with a system that is out of whack with what people want, Bitcoin will reflect that.

John : I think so, and you know, I can always tell people that watch a lot of television, if I ask them a question.

[55:01] [Going] back a year, or two years, and if I ask them about unions, [like], "What do you think about unions?" they'd say, "Uh, it's unions that are ruining this country!"

Venzen : [laughter]

John : Right? Because they've been watching way too much CNN and Fox News. If I ask people now, "What do you think about the situation in Greece?" And I do ask people all the time.

Venzen : Yeah. What do they think?

John : You know, "Oh, those Greeks. They're so corrupt. If they had just paid their taxes. You know, they're a bunch of tax evaders that really have just become so corrupt that anything bad that happens to them they deserve it. I can't believe they're not accepting these austerity measures."

Venzen : They're lazy down there. [laughter]

John : "They're lazy down there. The European Central bank and IMF [are] trying to help them, and the Greeks are just lazy and stupid, and they don't get it." So that's a person [who] listens to a lot of television, and I say to them, "Look. If you want to look at corruption, you know, let's go to Mexico City. Let's go to Washington D.C. Let's go to London, baby!"

Venzen : Right.

John : Let's go to London if you want to talk about corruption, right?

[56:00] Venzen : Yeah. Let's look at the ones who are hiding in plain site, right? The ones who are right there in your face, and you don't see them because the news is distracting you, or [whatever].

John : Exactly, and let's look at the [big players]. If you want to talk about big corruption we're talking about trillions. We're talking about hundreds of billions, and then you talk about some little teeny island, Greece. Yeah, there's corruption there. There's corruption everywhere, and yeah, people have evaded taxes, like they do all over the world, but they're certainly not lazy, and you certainly cannot take the work standard that Ayn Rand advocates - and that people in Manhattan advocate - [like] "Work, work, work! Work, work, work! Get as much as you can as fast as you can! I live in Los Angeles. I'm gonna stop and get another coffee. I've had five coffees today, [and] maybe a little bit of Coke with dinner, and a couple of Martinis. Work, work, work. Work, work... We've got to get more. We've got to get more...."

Venzen : More, more. faster, faster! More, more!

John : Faster, more. maybe it's true that in the Mediterranean countries people understand that if you take a break during the day - take a rest, take a nap, take a siesta - to get out of the hot sun, maybe there's some sense to that, you know?

[57:06] Maybe there's some sense to not having your entire life revolve around working and gaining, and more, and more, and more. You know, how about living, and having a good diet, and enjoying looking out over the ocean. That's something that I really feel is lost.

Venzen : You just put your finger on it, because in the end - in our final moments that we will all have on this earth - we know that the most important thing in life is love for the people around you, and your family, right?

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : If one can make that a living reality while you are still alive then surely that is not doing wrong. But some people, [and] power structures would have us believe that those things are perverted, [and] that a desire to have those makes you lazy and corrupt, you know?

[58:01] John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Certainly, as a person that was born in South Africa, and that traveled in Africa, one perceives all the negative media and energies towards Africa. They talk about "Banana Republics", and they talk about corrupt African leaders, and then - as you made the point - let's look at where the corruption really comes from. Let's see where it originates, and where it is practiced most vehemently.

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : I don't think that -- imaging you and me, John, were really corrupt individuals, and we came up with a corrupt plan. Now the IMF and the European Central Bank are not going to fund your, and my, corruption, because what can two guys like us offer them? You know.

John : Nothing, right.

Venzen : So, I [think I agree with you]. I mean, yeah, what power do we have, but I think [that] when it comes to hosting Olympic games, and when it comes to building contracts, and when it comes to preferential treatment for your businesses and you banks, I think the IMF had as much hand in whatever corruption did happen in Greece to get them in the current situation.

John : Yes.

[59:14] Venzen : So yeah, your point is good. Your point is good, that if one watches Fox - if you watch Rupert Murdoch's version of it - you're going to believe that it's the Greek people who did that to themselves.

John : Yes. I would go so far as to say that the European Union was engineered to destroy the wealth of some of these Mediterranean countries, and some of the other countries, to steal -- or, let's just put it another way, and/or to rob so much from them - that, again, the few there in Germany and London, and the US, [and] wherever - the few, once again, were able to rob, and to profit, while the masses suffered. I certainly believe that that's within the realm of possibilities.

[60:03] Venzen : That is within the realm of possibility. It's a plausible argument. There is evidence for it [that] you and I don't have time, this time around, to get into. I think it is a consequence of central banking, [and] I think it is a consequence of centralization, because as you know, the burden of centralization - the burden of having power - is that you have to be vigilant to challenges to that power. Now, if you're not willing to decentralize the power, and make a better living for everybody, then it becomes a case of morbid, and paranoid, control of people and territories, and making examples of people to instill fear. I think you're right. That is what we're witnessing in Europe. Now, to relate it back to Bitcoin, you know that there are people [who] are involved in Bitcoin who do not get the decentralization principle, [and] who do not much care for the censorship resistance.

[61:12] Because what they are seeing is a payment network that can make them money as consultants, and that can be "Faster, faster! More, more!" There are people who advocating that Bitcoin - people who are actively involved in its development, and in its direction, in a way, because they are influential and they are knowledgable - who are are saying that Bitcoin must compete with visa.

John : Hmm.

Venzen : This is so funny, because speaking as we do, [and] having the worldview that we do - of a majority world and a minority world - we can clearly see that the "People Power" of Bitcoin [will] eventually turn the centralized system upside-down.

[62:00] John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Yet, we have people who are campaigning. There are people active in Bitcoin who would like to see it facilitate coffee transactions at Starbucks, you know?

John : Yes.

Venzen : ... and if it cannot be faster it's not going to be able to compete with visa. That, to me, is ludicrous thinking. It shows how people can have eyes and not see something as blatant, and as wonderful - as innovative - as Bitcoin. You know, that they would want to squash it in a box, [and] that they would want to make it a servant of a system that does them no good.

John : Yeah, that's really well put, and I think that as we see Bitcoin move into the future I think we will see those central authorities - for which we have disdain - I think we will see some of them [co-opting] --- we're already seeing it - co-opting Bitcoin,and blockchain technologies, and I think we will see the same old battle that we've always seen, between good and evil. There will be the "good" use of Bitcoin, and there will be the "evil" use of Bitcoin and blockchain technologies. Of course, I don't think there's any way out of that.

[63:07] Venzen : I think [that] this battle will persist. It will play out in Bitcoin. You know, if we take a popular myth about it, the Star Wars episodes...

John : Yes.

Venzen : You know, it was interesting that the Emperor Palpatine had achieved his power, and he had done his check-mate on the galaxy, by roping in what was called the "Trade Confederation".

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : Right? Yeah, because he knew that through trade he could manipulate much wider forces, and play much stronger political games. There are people who are saying that Bitcoin is for trade, [that] it is for competing with the banks.

[64:00] It should be put to service of the banks,, and I think that when we speak like that it sounds very -- you know, one can easily have the reaction that, "Oh no! This must never happen!" I believe there is no need for fear, because Bitcoin is a prototype, and it will always exist in the way that we find most beneficial, - whether that is a version 2.0, or another alt-coin that embodies the best aspects of censorship resistance, and of decentralization, and of the mathematical proof that we want for our transactions. I think it will always exist.

John : Hmm.

Venzen : It might not be the same Bitcoin of today, but it will always be there. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle.

John : [laughter] Those are encouraging words. I love that. So let me ask you, before we go, Venzen, if someone had to dedicate a song for you - a special song that might embody what you do as a Bitcoin trader - is there a special song request that you would have?

[65:06] Venzen : Yes, there is. You know, I love all music, and your city of Nashville has made some incredible songs that the whole world has listened to. There is one, particular, that applies to trading. It applies to speculation. Whether it's business or Bitcoin trading, or whatever, I like the song "The Gambler" by Kenny Rogers.

John : I knew you were going to say that. [laughter] That's so funny.

Venzen : You did?

John : Yes, I did. Well, as you started saying that I realized, 'It's got to be "The Gambler",... "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them..." Right? [laughter] This is funny, man. When I first moved here I moved onto "Music Row". I moved here for music, and I've had some limited success, but it's a difficult town, [and] the music business. But it's so funny, because right there on “Music Row”, for whatever reason, that first number I had - I can almost remember the phone number - 279-5370.

[66:06] I came home one time, and I still had an answering machine. This is back in the year 2000. And on my answering machine was a voice message from Kenny Rogers. He had dialed the wrong number. He was talking about his upcoming performance, and how the suit coat he was going to be wearing didn't have the right colors of sequin on it - and stitching on it - and he was a bit upset about it. [laughter] But anyway, that's my brush with fame with Kenny Rogers, was that I got a voicemail with Kenny Rogers, even though he did not intend to send that to me. Well, I would love to play that song in this episode, "The Gambler". It’s a great song, but I don't know if, legally, I can, without paying royalties to Kenny Rogers, or the Kenny Rogers’ empire. But I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

[67:00] I'm going to introduce my song that I wrote some time back called "The Bitcoin Trader".

Venzen : All right.

John : I actually came out with this song last year, and I wanted to put it on the show, and right about the time I was ready to put it on the show that company - that we had had visit us here in Nashville, "Bitcoin Trader" - they went under and ripped a lot of people off, [and] took a lot of people's money. So I though, 'I cannot put out my song "The Bitcoin Trader" after these people have just done this. People are going to associate it with that.' Right?

Venzen : MmmHmm.

John : So I had to wait all of this time. I had to wait until I could actually interview a real, genuine, thoughtful Bitcoin trader, who wasn't just a blow-hard, and who wasn't just a money-hungry bastard - which a lot of them are. So I am so happy that in this episode I get to introduce this song, "The Bitcoin Trader", and have it with the interview with you, Venzen Khaosan, "the" “Bitcoin Trader”.

[68:05] Venzen : Well, thank you very much. It was very good speaking with you. I would like to return, and for us to update the view of the market, and also explore some of the things that we had been discussing, because you certainly show a lot of perception and thoughtfulness, John, and that'll be a pleasure.

John : Well, you know what? I love talking with people who come from a philosophy of humanitarianism, where they genuinely care about other people. I can tell that that is you, and that really makes me, not just feel good, but it encourages me to know that there are people out there who are not just going after the buck. I mean, I understand that you are working to profit in your trading. You're obviously not working to lose, right? But I like where you're living now. If I had the money I would invite myself to come visit you immediately [laughter], and hang out there.

[69:01] Venzen : You're welcome any time, by the way.

John : You're very kind man. What does it cost to live [in Thailand]?

Venzen : My house is your house. [How much does it cost to live in Thailand?] This is the amazing thing. I've never experienced anything like this in my life. You know, growing up in South Africa one faces people in dire economic need...

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : People with no job, people with no hope of a job, [and] people without a house. And while the "fat cats" in government - whether it's the previous apartheid government, or the current government - are living it up, and having multi-million [dollar] parties for birthdays and things...

John : MmmHmm.

Venzen : ... there are people who have no hope of education, or food, or a similar style of life. For me, that is wrong, you know? Having come to Thailand, I came to Thailand by a sequence of events, and found myself here, and decided to stay on.

[70:04] It is one of the cheapest countries I've been in. Food is plentiful, water is plentiful, and with the majority of the country being Buddhists - and Buddhism is not a religion, right? It is a science of mind. The amount of goodwill amongst the Thai people is so great that it reflects in everyday life, [like] in living conditions [and] the way that people treat one another. I mean, the prices you are paying, because people want to make a profit on their business, but they don't want to show themselves to be greedy.

John : Hmm.

Venzen : I think this is a good way to do business, you know. It helps everybody involved. Everyone benefits from that kind of mindset.

John : I agree. Wow. Man, that sounds fantastic.

Venzen : Yeah, so come over. When you're ready you're welcome.

[71:01] John : [laughter] Thank you so much. I really appreciate that, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your morning to interview. Listeners, you've been listening to Venzen Khaosan. He can be found at, where you can learn about Bitcoin trading from the experts, for a very fair price. Venzen, thank you once again for being on the show.

Venzen : Fantastic, and thanks for having me. Great to speak with you John.

John : You too, man. I will talk to you soon, and definitely have you back on the show before too long.

Venzen : Fantastic. Good luck.

John : Hey thanks man. Take care. Bye-bye.


John : Listeners, prepare yourselves for the release of my new hit single, "The Bitcoin Trader", featuring yours truly on vocals. Venzen, I'm sorry I could not play the song you requested. I hope you'll enjoy this one, and rest assured that you were not the subject of this new song of mine. This song is a tongue-in-cheek tribute to Bitcoin traders everywhere, and it is certainly not meant to be taken serious -- [laughter] well, except maybe in musical terms.

[MUSIC FROM "Bitcoin Trader"]

[72:11] "Well I'm... Well, I'm... Well, I'm the Bitcoin Trader, Navigator of the Bitcoin scene.

I'm a rare motivator When it comes to Making money for me.

And I might go shorter and long, But I like to tell everybody I've never been wrong, I'm the Bitcoin Trader, Come on, let me sing my song.


Well, I made about a quarter million dollars on the Old Mount Gox, And I jumped that ship about a year before it hit the rocks. I put a little into LBC Then it doubled and I bought a place in Waikiki.

I'm the Bitcoin Trader, Come on a take a look at me!


[73:02] I don't use bots, But I know a lot of other people do. I've got a field temperometer Backup tachometer too.

And I know just when to sell, And when to run the moon like a bat out of hell.

I'm the Bitcoin Trader Cha-Ching Let me ring my bell!

[TRAIN WHISTLE SOUND] Full speed ahead, Captain!

Riding them Bitcoin waves, Boys, ride them high and low.

I said, ride them Bitcoin waves, Heave-Ho...Heave-Ho

I don't give a damn about no whales, Those “Moby Dicks” are gonna burn in hell. So ride them Bitcoin waves away Heave-Ho

Here we go, I said, ride them Bitcoin waves Boys, just ride them high and low I said, ride them Bitcoin waves, Heave-ho...Heave-ho.

I ain't scared of no shark attack, yo-ho! I just pray to God Almighty That I don't get hacked. Pray to God Almighty That I don't get hacked.

Chorus : Pray-hey to God Almighty That I don't get hacked. Today... He - he -he.

Pray to God Almighty That I don't get hacked. Today... Hey - hey - hey.

[74:14] Well, pigs in the pen, Gummies in the sack. Corn's in the crib, And the hay's all stacked.

The kittens and the Bitcoin never looked back. Pray to God Almighty that I don't get hacked. Pray to Might God Almighty that I don't get hacked.



John : Ho, ho, ho! Thank you Copenhagen! [FOREIGN LANGUAGE WORDS]


John : I'd like to thank my guest on today's show, Venzen Khaosan. Venzen continues to educate- and enlighten - us, with his Bitcoin market updates that can be found by going to

[75:07] And, of course, thank you to our sponsor, Moonshine Cowboy Bootwax . Moonshine Cowboy Bootwax is made in small batches right here in East Nashville, Tennessee, by two hardworking entrepreneurs with a combined life experience of over 100 years. [It's] the first all-natural, 100% non-toxic bootwax. Get yours today by going to And to hear more of me - if you haven't already heard enough - check out my new podcast, East Nashville Now, which can be found by going to I know that it may sound absurd, but I have for you a magic word, and today the magic word is "trader", [as] in "Venzen Khaosan is my all-time favorite Bitcoin trader."

[76:11] Thanks for being here, Venzen. We need some humanity in this whole thing. Listeners, thank you so much for being here with me again today, and if you've enjoyed the show please do me a favor and leave me a little tip. Your tips really do help keep the lights on, and coffee in the kettle. I'm pretty much a volunteer here, folks, so help me keep the motivation going, please. And remember, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women to do nothing.


John : Do something yáll. Make your voices heard. Write something. Say something. Get it done, and get it out there.

[music and lyrics to “Ode to Satoshi” song]

John Barrett : Now climb aboard y’all! This train is bound for glory… and there’s plenty of room for all…

[77:03] “Well Satoshi Nakamoto, that's a name I love to say, And we don't know much about him, but he came to save the day. When he wrote about the way things are, And the way things ought to be, He gave us all a protocol this world had never seen.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[guitar instrumental]

Down the road it will be told about the Death of Old Mount Gox, About traders trading alter coins, and miners mining blocks. But them good old boys back in Illinois, And on down through Tennessee, See they don't care to be a millionaire, They're just wanting to be free.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[instrumental interlude]

[78:22] From the ghettos of Calcutta, to the halls of Parliament, While the bankers count our money out for every government. Oh, Bitcoin flies on through the skies of virtuality, A promise to deliver us from age-old tyranny.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name. Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your -- "Give me some exposure" -- Everybody knows your name.

[79:00] Singing, Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord, before I have to go. Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord . . . before I have to . . . Go . . .

[instrumental finale]


John : Oh-ho! Thank you East Nashville! Y’all be good to each other out there, ya’ hear?

Maxwell : Grrrr....grrrr....