Bitcoins and Gravy #72: “Bitcoin: The End Of Money As We Know It” (Transcript)

Episode notes and comments page:

Professional transcription provided by a fan and consultant of the show, who can be found at:

[0:00] John Barrett (Announcer and Host): Welcome to Bitcoins and Gravy, Episode #72. At the time of this recording Bitcoins are trading at $269.00 dollars each, and everybody’s favorite, LTBCoins, are trading at $0.000113 U.S. dollars each. Mmm…Mmm…Mmm! Now THAT’S gravy!

[Intro music]

John : Welcome to "Bitcoins and Gravy", and thanks for joining me today as I podcast from East Nashville, Tennessee, with my trusty Siberian Husky, Maxwell, right here by my side. Say "Hello!", Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grrrrr…..

John : We’re two Bitcoin enthusiasts who love talking about Bitcoins, and sharing what we learn with you, the listener. Long time listeners, thanks again for joining us, and thank you for your tips. New listeners, we hope you enjoy the show.

[intro music concludes]

On today's show I interview film producer Torsten Hoffman about the release of his new Bitcoin Documentary, "Bitcoin: The End Of Money As We Know It".

[1:04] This film recently picked up two awards at the Freedom Fest in Las Vegas. In the words of Calvin Tran, this important documentary is, I quote, "Dynamic and filled to the brim with hard-hitting history. There’s electricity in the pace, a kineticism in the narration, a fervor in the subject matter and the high-stakes world of finance. It is a rapid film that catches you off guard, with a title as provocative as itself." Join me today, listeners, as I speak with Mr. Hoffman about this great film.


John : All right, listeners, today on the show I am thrilled to be talking, once again, with writer, director, and filmmaker Torsten Hoffman. Mr. Hoffman, welcome back to Bitcoins & Gravy.

Torsten : Hi John. [It's] a pleasure to talk to you.

John : It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Now, you're in Melbourne right now, and I'm still in Monday, and you're on Tuesday already, right?

[2:03] Torsten : That's correct. I'm calling from the future. Yeah.

John : All right. So let's jump right in, man. You have produced and directed this great film called, "Bitcoin : The End Of Money".

Torsten : Yeah, correct. It's been a long journey, almost two years in the making.

John : Wow.

Torsten : Finally, it's all come to this point, and we're launching today and tomorrow, on various platforms, so it's a very exciting time for me.

John : Okay. Yeah. This is very exciting. I, of course, have seen the movie several times. It's a phenomenal movie. Of all the Bitcoin [documentary] movies I have seen so far, this takes the cake. This is, by far, the best one, on so many levels. We can talk a little bit more about that a little later in the interview, [like] the content that you have, and how rich in content it is. That's, for me, what makes a great documentary. Whether you've been in the Bitcoin world forever, or you're just getting into it, this is the film that will give you that rich content that you're looking for, for a well-rounded Bitcoin documentary, with phenomenal continuity. The audio [and] the video, [and] everything, fits together in a perfect way. So, I can't say enough about the film, man.

[3:05] Torsten : Whoa! Thank you so much. That means a lot. We really tried hard to make it a documentary. "Documentary", for me, means to explain things.

John : MmmHmm.

Torsten : Explaining this complex beast that is Bitcoin, really -- yeah, there's a lot of content, a lot of information in there. We didn't put too many personal opinions, or any of that kind of stuff, in the film. So we tried to keep it neutral [and] balanced as well, and thanks for telling me about the continuity. You worked with us on the film, and you worked with Michael. Michael is the co-director of the film, and he was really responsible [for] making it look coherent. Yeah, it's been a challenge, but I think we pulled it off quite nicely.

John : I think you definitely did. So let me ask you: What was your original idea for the film when you started back two years ago?

[4:00] Torsten : The original idea was really, 'Oh, I love technology. I love this Bitcoin thing, and nobody really understands it, so let's make a film about Bitcoin and explain it to people.'

John : MmmHmm.

Torsten : But I quickly learned that you can't just jump right into the blockchain and Bitcoin. It's just too complex. I guess you kind of struggle with this every week in your show, right?

John : Yeah.

Torsten : I mean, it quickly gets too complex, and so we ended up really talking about money. Half of the film is about money, [including]: What is money? How did it originate? The history of banks. The history of finance. Only then can you kind of appreciate the innovation, and the invention, that Satoshi put forward. So yeah, that was one of the things that I, kind of, learned in the process, and another thing I was a bit surprised by - because when I first got into this world people were talking about libertarian ideas, and money being free from governments, and I kind of thought, "This is bullshit."

John : [laughter]

[5:01] Torsten : I'm sorry to say that word on the show. But I thought, 'All right, what the hell. I mean, it's a technology and it's money, what...?' But the more I looked into it the more I understood [that] it's a really bad idea to have governments in control of our money...'

John : Yeah.

Torsten : Or any central authorities, or central control, in charge of money. That's something I learned.

John : I completely agree with that. Well, what I like about the film is that even if you'd been in the Bitcoin world for a while - which I have been since late 2010 - I still learned, right? I still learned some new things about money, and about the history of money. I think you succeeded all the way around. So can you talk to us a little bit about some of the great people that you had on? Obviously, the star of any Bitcoin movie these days would be, you know, 'Starring Andreas Antonopoulos', right?

Torsten : Yeah, absolutely.

John : He's my all-time favorite. But who else did you interview, and how did you get these guys?

Torsten : Yeah, so let's first start off with Andreas. Andreas is just so good [that] I could just leave him [for an entire hour].

[6:08] John : Yes [laughter].

Torsten : Like, everything he says you can just write down. It's a book. It's like so perfect. But obviously, to make a film you want a little bit more diversity, so yeah, we couldn't do that. So I traveled to many of these Bitcoin conferences in the last two years. We recorded in Miami, [at the] Bitcoin conference. In Toronto there was another conference. We recorded in New York twice, at the Bloomberg office, and at different offices there. And I went to London and Cambridge for two more interviews. Oh, and Melbourne, Australia. So yeah, we recorded on three continents over more than a year.

John : Man, that sounds like a lot of work. It also sounds like a lot of fun. I'm stuck here in Nashville. For the next film do you need a grip or something? What do they call those, the "best boy"? "Hey John, go out and get a sandwich for me!" [laughter] I want to be there man. I want be roaming the streets of London looking for a sandwich for you.

[7:01] Torsten : [laughter] Yeah, but as you know, that's just one day, right? Then you end up three months in the cutting room, which isn't so...

John : [laughter] It's just a lot of work. So let me ask you, you started back two years ago - started planning, [and] I guess you started writing the film - and the film is finished now. What has changed - even since the film has come out? Have some things changed, in terms of how you're thinking about Bitcoin, or what you want? Are there any things that you would do differently?

Torsten : Well, first of all, let me say - regarding the music - we obviously used your famous Bitcoin song, "Ode To Satoshi", as the main theme song, so thank you for that.

John : [laughter] Oh, you're welcome. Yes. The "Official Bitcoin Song", right?

Torsten : Exactly. Exactly. Well, what have I learned? I mean, I started at zero, and now I think I do understand the concept of Bitcoin quite extensively. But what I've really learned is things about money, and I think that's what I want the audience to understand.

[8:00] It's really the concept of: Why we came to a point that paper money suddenly existed, and why central banks, and private banks, just create money out of thin air, and why all of our money is created as debt. I mean, still, one of the most astounding facts, for me, is not really about Bitcoin, [but] it's about [how] every dollar that you hold someone owes a dollar. There's one dollar of debt that is owed for every dollar that exists.

John : Yeah.

Torsten : It's not even that there's enough dollars to pay it back, because it's charged interest. So, I mean, we are just living in a system which is kind of screwed up. So, yeah, that was very, very interesting. Let me just quickly jump back to your earlier question, John. You asked about who else we [had] on the film. I don't want to walk through the entire list, but obviously we[ have] : "Bitcoin Jesus", Roger Ver, in it, and Jeffrey Tucker, and all these big and famous Bitcoin gurus, but I think [the] point I want to make is [that] Bitcoin is not about white dudes, and it's not about old white men, or young, white entrepreneurs.

[9:06] It's really an international thing, and I tried - the best that I could - to make that point. I mean, there are women in the film, [and] there are Asians, Africans [and] people from all over the place. Not only Bitcoiners, but also: bankers, economists, journalists, [and] critics, even, in the film. So we really tried to have a balanced and diverse mix, but as you said in the beginning, it's just so hard, [because] there are people like Andreas [who] are just so good in front of the camera, so it's hard to take them out and take somebody else in instead.

John : Yeah. I think you did a good job of showing that diversity, and I thought it was a very fair look at money, and at Bitcoin.

Torsten : Yeah. Thanks. That was really the challenge, right? I mean, as you know, it's hard to find people who know about Bitcoin and still don't like it [laughter], because the more people research and understand it the more solid it becomes. I am certainly a Bitcoin supporter, but yeah, we do have those voices in the film, because I do think they are important.

[10:03] Of course, if I go to someone like Netflix, and try to license my film to them, they will not take a "Bitcoin fanboy" film. They will look for the rounded approach. They will look for : Are there academics in it? Are there famous journalists in it? Yeah, so I tried to tick all of these boxes, and we'll see what the audience says to that.

John : Well, I think the audience is going to love it, and I'm excited. Now you just won a couple of awards at the "Freedom Fest". Is that right?

Torsten : Yeah, that's correct. Just this weekend [we] had our world premiere in Las Vegas at the "Freedom Fest". There's a little film festival attached to it, and we won two awards. One was "Best International Documentary", which I'm very proud of. The other one is "Best Libertarian Ideas", so going back to the Libertarian angles that was very good. Actually, after the world premiere there was a panel discussion with Jeffrey Tucker, [and] Patrick Byrne - who you've interviewed famously...

[11:02] John : Yeah.

Torsten : ... and they discussed that topic further, and it seems like the libertarian crowd is really getting into Bitcoin now. So I've been hearing that Freedom Fest is more vibrant than ever, and Bitcoin is making great progress with this crowd.

John : Wow, I love that. I wish I could have been there in Las Vegas with you guys. That sounds like so much fun. I've never even been to Las Vegas, but Las Vegas aside - who cares about that? This Freedom Fest just sounds phenomenal, man. I would have loved to have been there. Congratulations on those rewards. I think that's phenomenal [that] you went in to show the film to people and they gave you some awards.

Torsten : Awards [are] nice, but it is still two years of our lives, and a lot of money, obviously. We did raise some Kickstarter funds, but still, [an] award alone is not a proof of concept. Proof of concept is if you are able to get some of the money back in terms of licensing it to television channels, [like] to Netflix. Or, what [we are] doing now with the digital release. So we really hope that the audience will follow our vision.

[12:04] John : Right now, if somebody wants to see the film, can they order the film right now?

Torsten : Yeah, absolutely. We just launched on several platforms, so let me just walk through them one by one. The first one is : How do I pay for the film with Bitcoin? Because that's usually the first question.

John : Yeah. [laughter]

Torsten : We work together with Protocol TV, which is a small company out of Los Angeles and Atlanta. They have had videos up for the longest time where they sell, 'For 50 cents, or 49 cents, you can watch a video.' We're going with them for the full documentary, and you can just go to Protocol TV. Then the second one is BitTorrent . Now BitTorrent is maybe a little controversial for some, but BitTorrent now has, not only the technology to allow a lot of illegal streams, and all [this] kind of illegal, pirated content, [but] they are a very legit technology company.

[13:04] They support a lot of the big web sites all around the world, and they also have Pay View service which they call Bitcoin Bundles. We just went live with them, so you can download the film and tons of bonus materials, for I think $7.00, is the price of the torrent. Then the most easiest one, probably, is Vimeo . Everybody knows Vimeo. It's easy just to download, or to stream, or rent, or download, or something like that. So that one is easy, and we're still struggling a little bit with iTunes and Amazon. Those guys are larger companies. It's harder to manage all of their technical requirements. We had some problems with the subtitling, and things like that. But I think [that] by the time the video is out, probably, we will be live on Amazon and iTunes as well.


[14:13] John (announcer) : One thing that I carry with me proudly, wherever I go, is my Bitcoin keychain. One of the great things about being in the Bitcoin sphere is the amazingly talented, and creative, people that we get to meet. Rob Mitchell, the host of the Bitcoin game, is definitely no exception to this rule. [HONKING HORN] I first met Rob in person at the Texas Bitcoin Conference earlier this year, and we had a great time talking about everything Bitcoin-related. But what really knocked my socks off was a gift that Rob gave me that I carry with me each and every day, wherever I go. That is my Bitcoin keychain. My Bitcoin keychain is brass-plated, and basically looks like a physical Bitcoin. It has a nice, hefty weight it, and it feels good in my hand [HONKING HORN]. My Bitcoin keychain serves as a constant reminder to me of the power that Bitcoin has to change the world for the better, to empower me, and to empower people around the world.

[15:07] To get your own Bitcoin Keychain just head over to . That's the letter "B" [and] "". For about the price of a burger and a beer you can own your own Bitcoin keychain today, and carry it with you throughout the years while we watch - from our front row seats - as this amazing, earth-changing drama unfolds before our very eyes. Get your Bitcoin Keychain today by going to


John : Do you have plans to show this film in theaters around the country, and around the world?

Torsten : Yes. Actually, we have been approached by many people, and I assume many more will follow in the next couple of weeks.

[16:04] We are going to do it in Israel. We have had a few screenings in German. I'm sure that in America there will also be some screenings, but I haven't really figured out how to manage all of that, and how to organize those screenings. So if any one of your audience [members] has an idea, or has contacts to theaters, please let me know. I'm a rookie in this game.

John : Okay. We have, here in Nashville, the Belcourt theater, which is now a non-profit organization. They show great art films, and Indie films, and they have events there. I would love to see the film at the Belcourt. What can I do - or tell listeners what we can do - if we have a theater that we feel would be receptive to the film?

Torsten : Get in touch with me. Now, with your concrete example, let's just do it. I'll send you the highest resolution version that I have, and let's split the money - if we make any money - or something like that. I mean, let's not overthink it and do too much paperwork. Let's just get the get the film out to people.

[17:00] It's not going to make you [or me] rich, but it's about getting the film out.

John : I agree. Yeah, that's exciting. So really, anybody, just get in touch with you. Information for how to get in touch with Torsten will be in the show notes. I always ask my guests - if you have time after the show comes out Sunday - if you could log into your account on Let's Talk Bitcoin, and join the conversation there in the "comments" section, below the show notes, Listeners often want to continue the conversation with whoever I was interviewing, and in this instance I am positive that people are going to be knocking on your door, and wanting to do know more about it.

Torsten : Sure. I'm a member of the [Let's Talk Bitcoin] community. Sure. Let's do that. Sure.

John : Okay. That's sounds great. You have street credibility now. I mean, if you're going to watch any of those YouTube videos from Freedom Fest, or read the articles about Freedom Fest, I'm sure that your film is going to come up. That's pretty exciting. That gives you street credibility coming out of the gate.

[18:01] I think that's really important for a film; that you're taken seriously because you've done something in a way that people really can sink their teeth into - that they can really understand, and go, "Oh wow! This is a great explanation of money, and a great explanation of Bitcoin..." I have to say it again, not just for people who are novices [and] who want to learn about money and Bitcoin, but for people who have been in it for a while. This is just a really great film on so many levels.

Torsten : Two comments on that. So, regarding the film festivals, they are actually more important than people realize. My background is media distribution, and I do license documentaries to clients all over the world.

John : Wow.

Torsten : And the film that has won a few awards will be taken more seriously, because there's so much content on YouTube and all of these other platforms. So how [do] Chinese TV channels differentiate? How do they know if this is actually a good movie, or not a good movie? Yeah, so hopefully that will help us [bring] the film out to the big audiences. I mean, the Bitcoin community is a great start, and the libertarian crowd is a great fan base, but ideally we would want to have the film on the BBC, or something [like] CNN.

[19:09] John : Yeah.

Torsten : I'm just making this up now. Obviously, those would be tough to get, but the next step would [really] be the big broadcasters and the big companies like Netflix and things like that. [As for] the other comment that you just made, yeah, we actually did try to have it [be] interesting for both audiences. So the Bitcoin crowd will still find a few little interesting stories [and] interesting factoids - interesting things they didn't know. Like that one comment by the guy who met Satoshi in the year 2005, right?

John : Oh, yeah. [laughter]

Torsten : That is something new that people maybe didn't really know about. But, to be honest, the film is targeted for people that have no idea about Bitcoin. So it's [for] someone who's interested in money, has heard about Bitcoin a couple of times, and now is ready to take a 60 minute crash course in the subject.

[20:01] John : Yeah. I think it does a great job of that, at drawing people in, and making [them] really curious about the subject, from the very beginning. I think the film is dynamic throughout, is the best was I can put it. So what about other film festivals. Are there other opportunities for other film festivals, for this film, moving forward over the next year or two?

Torsten : Yeah. We've done, now, maybe 12 or 15 different festival submissions, and it's actually quite expensive. I think we spent, I don't know, maybe $2,000 on all these festivals, and I kind of put a stop to it, because I'm running out of money, [and] two years has been a long time, and it's time to do the balance on the whole project. So I've kind of stopped, but I think [that] once now we get more press, and these awards, I think film festivals will approach us, or we will see some film festivals that kind of fit our technology/libertarian angle, and then of course we'll continue with that as well. Sure.

John : I see. Yeah, I had no idea that it actually cost money to submit a film to a film festival.

[21:01] I guess that make sense, right? They have to pay for people to view it and vote on it. I have no idea how any of that is done. I imagine that it is very competitive.

Torsten : Yeah. I'm hearing that film festivals get hundreds and hundreds of submissions, and the larger and more famous those film festivals the more they get. So I guess they have to have an entry price to reduce that number, and they have to pay people to watch all of this content. So yeah, it's tough. It was also the first time for me, so it's one of the things I learned, as well, on the way.

John : So tell our listeners, if you would, what is your background? First, your background in Bitcoin - how you discovered Bitcoin? Then next, your background in film?

Torsten : I've been in the media industry, now, for 10 [to] 12 years - something like that - but never on the creative side. I've been working for a cable company. I've been working as a consultant for TV channels, and now I run a company in distribution, so I buy and sell and publish documentaries.

[22:01] So I do know a lot about this space, but this was the very first time I decided to make a film on my own. [For] my background in Bitcoin, I did a finance MBA five [or] six years ago, and one of the papers that I had to write - or that I chose to write - was about local currencies, which is like: How to get out of the regular government money. A local area, town, [or] neighborhood, decides, 'Hey, let's use [a] script money that we just circulate among ourselves, so it doesn't get sucked up by the big corporations, and ends up at Wall Street with the 1%' .

John : Hmm.

Torsten : That is a very interesting idea, with histories both in Germany, and also America, and that was the first time when I kind of questioned fiat money, I guess.

John : Yeah.

Torsten : [Then] ever since then - so that was 2009. I believe - I've been keeping my eyes and ears open, and when I heard about Bitcoin that was it. It was clear to me that this is an important innovation, and it was clear to me that this is a great subject for a documentary.

[23:09] John : Yeah. I don't think you could have picked a better one. You know, I've read many different stories about different currencies, in small towns, that they've used in times of crisis, and also just because people have wanted to do it, right? I think Davis, California - if I recall - has like a "Davis Buck" that you can use [between] all of the different businesses, and it works really well for people. I imagine that they're already doing something similar to that in many parts of the world, maybe even in Greece, I think some of the islands are starting to do things like this. But yeah, that's a fascinating subject. It really is.

Torsten : In mentioning Greece, actually, we couldn't have picked a better time to release the film. I mean, Bitcoin has benefited quite a lot. It's been going up, I think, 30% over the last 30 days, and I think that was mainly due to media exposure due to the Euro crisis. I've just had our first couple of pre-orders from Vimeo, and the first one was from Greece, actually, so I'm proud of that.

[24:10] John : [laughter] That is great, man. Wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, the situation in Greece, I've been following it, but I'm not, personally, a big fan of the Eurozone, and I can't say that I've been tremendously vocal against the Eurozone. But when I look at the history of Greece, and some of the other Mediterranean countries, it really looks to me like it would have been better for them if they had just stayed doing the things that they were doing. I don't think that entering into the Eurozone was necessarily the best thing. I think there could be a future for the Mediterranean countries, and for the other countries of Europe, to work in a Eurozone [type] situation, but I just happen to know - from my reading - that there has been an awful lot of misappropriation of funds, and blatant thievery along the way, so I think [that] that's what a lot of people are having a problem with, that has brought us to where we are right now.

[25:04] Why should it be that Greece has fallen like it is? It's very easy for people to point fingers at Greece and say, "You're all lazy, and you're corrupt!" But that's really an oversimplification of he situation, from the Greek perspective. If you're one of the majority of Greeks who has, your entire life, been working your ass off, and you've never stopped, and you've done your best for your family, and then you hear these things in the news where people are saying, "Greeks are lazy. Greeks are corrupt." [But] you've never taken a bribe, or done anything illegal in your entire life. All you've done is work really hard -- which, again, I think [is] the majority of the Greek people. I think that they’ve been really criticized unfairly.

Torsten : Yeah. I'm not an expert on the situation, but what I will say is [that] it's just damn scary if you wake up in the morning and you can't get money out of your own bank account.

John : Yeah.

Torsten : Right? Or what also might happen - or what happened- in Cypress a couple of years ago, where the government just says, "Oh, okay. We'll take 10% out of your bank account."

[26:05] John : Right.

Torsten : That's when you realize [that] the money that you think you own is not actually your own, and that's just the amazing invention, and re-imagination that Satoshi brought to the world by saying, "Hey, we can be in control of our own wealth." That just always goes back to the point of decentralizing money, and treating money as it should be treated, as a digital item that should not be controlled by governments, by borders, [or] by banks, or whatever. You should be in control of it, just like we send emails back and forth, or other items.

John : Yes. I completely agree. and I think we're going to see -- I always say this - but I really think we're going to see a future that is parallel to what we're living today, and that is where there are a lot of freedoms to use money in any way that you choose - you know, [like] when you use cash, and you go out and you spend cash.

[27:02] I think that there will be a lot of freedoms as we incorporate digital currencies, more and more, into our lives. But then, of course, we're going to see governments doing their best to control people through these technologies. And I think that governments may, in the future, even have more control over people's lives and information than they do now, if everything one day is all digital, and there is no cash that you can hand to somebody and nobody knows about it. So that's what I have as far as fears for the future, and hopes for the future, -that it will make all of us a little bit more free, in terms of what we can do with our personal finances, but that it's also potentially a weapon for governments to just control people a little bit more than they do now. So those are my fears, and I think [that] in having those fears, and discussing those fears, I think that we all need to. Because I think [that] if we don't that we're going to get blind-sided, [and] we're going to wake up in 20 years and go, 'Man, the government, now they require that I have to have a chip that tells everything about everything, and they're working with Facebook and Google now. They've got all of my information, you know? They know what I had for dinner, and they know that I had that mole removed last week at the dermatologist's...'

[28:11] You know, I mean, it could get pretty scary, in terms of how much information the government could gather on somebody. So [I] think we need to continue to talk about that, because I think it's really important so that we don't wake up one day and find ourselves in that situation.

Torsten : Well, yeah, and in that spirit, should we offer your listeners a special discount code for the documentary?

John : Oh, hey. I love that! Yeah. Let's do that. How does this work?

Torsten : Okay. So is obviously the big video site, and on "Vimeo On Demand" there is going to be our film, and we have the link on the show notes. So when you order the film, either on rent or on buy - I think there are the two options - we'll be able to do a 20% discount for your listeners.

John : Oh, wow!

Torsten : And the discount code is "gravy20". So just g-r-a-v-y-2-0 - all small letters - and that code is going to be valid until the end of the month, and hopefully some will make use of it.

[29:10] John : Okay. That's great. Now, [it's] just until the end of the month. Just until the end of July, is that right?

Torsten : Yeah, correct. That's how the system works in here.

John : Okay, so "gravy20", you would just put that in when you go to to buy or to rent the film. There will be a place for the discount code there, right?

Torsten : That's correct. There's like a "enter promo" code.

John : Okay. Yeah, we've all seen that many times when we've checking out to buy something, and we all think, 'Man, I wish I had a promo code!' [laughter] 'I don't have one! Where do you get these promo codes from?' But listeners, now you have a promo code, "gravy20". Oh, that's great man. So what else would you like to tell our listeners before we wrap it up? [Is there] anything else about the film that they should know to inspire them to go out and buy the film, or rent the film?

Torsten : Yeah. So one last message to your listeners, and one personal message to you, John, as well.

[30:02] First, to everyone listening. We are independent filmmakers, and we spent a lot of time and money on this thing, but you can help us in so many ways : by just tweeting us, by just reviewing us on IMDB - give us a little review, or a rating - [and] follow us on Facebook. All of these little things actually do matter, because if Netflix looks at the film in two or three weeks, and they see, 'Hey, there's actually a real community around this film.' this will help. So, for example, our trailer on YouTube had, I think, 10,000 views in three days.

John : Nice.

Torsten : That is considered, 'Okay. This is a real film, and there's a real audience for it.' So if you are interested in getting the Bitcoin message out in the world the best thing that you can do is really to share it, and to talk about it, and to rate it and review it - and things like that. So I would really appreciate it. John, for you just one last message. I really do appreciate all of the work that you've put into this film.

[31:02] We've been not an easy client, I guess.

John : [laughter]

Torsten : For those of you who have not heard, John is the narrator, of course, of the documentary. And we've been harassing him to, 'Do this last minute.' 'Oh, we have two more hours to do this sentence new.' and 'Oh, could you please delete that one word, or [do] this differently.' and you've been like always exact on the timing, and it's not easy to hit the right timing that Michael did in the editing room, and to do it right. It was a tough job, and I really appreciate it, and thanks for being so flexible and kind to us.

John : Well, thank you so much for the opportunity - is the first thing - and the other thing is [that] I learned a lot working with you and working with Michael. Michael is phenomenal. He's a phenomenal mind. You are certainly a phenomenal mind to be reckoned with, so for me it was a great learning experience, and for me it was just to be able to deliver that content, those lines, that you guys wrote - the copy - that was just so uplifting to me in so many ways to me, honestly.

[32:02] If someone had said, you know, "Will you do a documentary about ...I don’t know...[saving] the whales?" I love whales, and I'll be happy to save the whales, but the content of this film is so important to human beings, and to the world, and then trickling on down to the whales, and everything else that lives on the planet. I mean, this is a really important film, so I felt - the whole time I was doing it - like I was involved in something important. I still feel that. I'm very proud, and very humbled, that you asked me to do this, and it's been a great life experience for me.

Torsten : Well, thank you. Thank you again, and thanks to your listeners. See you [in] the chatroom, and on email and Twitter, and everywhere else very soon.

John : All right. Listeners, you've been listening to Torsten Hoffman, the write, director, producer, and filmmaker. He has been talking to us from the future. Torsten, thank you so much for everything, and for being on the show, and I hope to talk to you soon.

Torsten : All right. Thank you, sir. Have a good night.

John : You too, Torsten. Take care, man.

Torsten : Bye. Thanks.


[32:59] This episode of Bitcoins & Gravy is brought to you by our good friends at Made by hand in small batches, right here in East Nashville, Tennessee, Moonshine Cowboy Bootwax is the original, all-natural, non-toxic bootwax with a scent of orange. Moonshine Cowboy Bootwax is a proprietary blend of American beeswax and other fine, all-natural ingredients. It's specially formulated to feed and protect your leather, while also offering an excellent, long-lasting shine. Whether it's your cowboy boots, your expensive wing-tips, or your wife's favorite pumps, Moonshine Bootwax is a must-have for gentlemen who care about their appearance. Moonshine Booitwax is proud to partner with Community Food Advocates , a non-profit organization working to end hunger by creating a healthy, just, and sustainable food system. Together with Community Food Advocates, MoonshineCowboy Bootwax is making a positive difference in the Nashville community one shine at a time.

[34:04] You can buy your very own 4 ounce tin today by going to, and best of all, you can pay using Bitcoin.


[music and lyrics to “Ode to Satoshi” song]

John Barrett : Now climb aboard y’all! This train is bound for glory… and there’s plenty of room for all…

“Well Satoshi Nakamoto, that's a name I love to say, And we don't know much about him, but he came to save the day. When he wrote about the way things are, And the way things ought to be, He gave us all a protocol this world had never seen.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[guitar instrumental]

[35:00] Down the road it will be told about the Death of Old Mount Gox, About traders trading alter coins, and miners mining blocks. But them good old boys back in Illinois, And on down through Tennessee, See they don't care to be a millionaire, They're just wanting to be free.

Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name.

[instrumental interlude]

From the ghettos of Calcutta, to the halls of Parliament, While the bankers count our money out for every government. Oh, Bitcoin flies on through the skies of virtuality, A promise to deliver us from age-old tyranny.

[36:03] Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain, Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign, gonna’ reign, Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your name. Till everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody knows your -- "Give me some exposure" -- Everybody knows your name.

Singing, Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord, before I have to go. Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord . . . before I have to . . . Go . . .

[instrumental finale]


[37:01] John : Oh-ho! Thank you East Nashville! Y’all be good to each other out there, ya’ hear?


John : I know that it may sound absurd, but I have for you a magic word, and today the magic word is "keychain" ... as in the sentence, "To get your very own Bitcoin keychain just head over to". For less then the price of a burger and a beer you can own your very own "heavy in the hand" brass-plated Bitcoin keychain today. And, of course, you can pay using Bitcoin. That's right, I'd like to thank my guest on the show today, Torsten Hoffman, the writer, director, and producer of the new documentary, "Bitcoin : The End of Money As We Know It".

[38:00] Mr. Hoffman has said, about the film "It has been a long journey, and we want to thank the Bitcoin community for their support on Kickstarter, Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook." He points out that the film is not targeted at savvy Bitcoin users, who already grasp the disruptive nature of the technology. Instead, this documentary is for your friends, and colleagues, who don't get it yet. Go to to rent or download this film today. Also, check the show notes for all of the ways to find this great film online, "Bitcoin : The End Of Money As We Know It".


John : Finally, listeners, remember the discount code, "gravy20". When you go to rent or buy this film use the discount code, "gravy20". That's "gravy20".

[39:09] By doing so you will get 20 percent off the cost of this film. Thanks for joining me today for another episode of Bitcoins & Gravy. I'm your host John Barrett, here with my trusty dog, Maxwell, by my said. Say "goodbye" Maxwell.

Maxwell : Grr.....

John : Loyal listeners, we will see you next week for another episode of Bitcoins & Gravy, broadcasting live from the Treehouse studio, here in beautiful East Nashville, Tennessee. And as I always like to say, remember folks, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women to do nothing. Go out there and do something, folks.


[40:00] Andreas Antonopoulos : We have front row seats in the development of a historic technology that is doing things that have never been done before. And every day that goes by I just feel amazed at having this opportunity to be front-line observer - and sometimes influencer - in what is turning out to be perhaps a historic, generational, worldwide, impactful, disruptive change in technology - one that will create history. That is an amazing feeling.


John Barrett (Narrator) : Look closely. What do we all have in common. No matter what corner of the world you live in, you need food, water, shelter, and money. Half of every transaction involves money in exchange for goods or services : stocks, a loaf of bread, illegal drugs. You gotta to pay for it.

[41:00] We spend much of our lives chasing money to make a living and accomplish our dreams. But it's also an instrument of destruction - some might say evil - driving criminals to lie, steal, and even murder.

Andreas Antonopoulos : The existing banking system extracts enormous value from society, and it is parasitic in nature.

John Barrett : Money is the catalyst for the worst and the best of human endeavor. Before civilization we created currency, fuel the wars [in] the path to power - champion and enemy - of innovation. Money is so integral to our society, and our global economy, that it's true nature remains a mystery to most. This is the story of money, perhaps the end money as we know it. No matter how fat your bank account, or how thin you wallet, to us it's all cold, hard cash.

[42:00] There are some who want to kill it, get rid of it - [to] burn your dollars, your euros, your yen - and transform every penny you have into ones and zeros. Digital currencies [are] trusted to the web, and computers spread across the planet - magic internet money. It's called cryptocurrency, Bitcoin. Invented in secret, it was a gift to the world.

Scott Li : "It's not just a currency, but it's actually programmable money."

John Barrett : A potential curse on bankers.

Roger Ver : I mean, there's nothing that the big banks or politicians can do to stop it.

John Barrett : Breaking every government's grip on money.

Eric Benz : "What the internet did for information, Bitcoin is doing for money."

Speaker 6 : "Could it be the new gold?"

Alan Greenspan : "[laughter] No, you have to really stretch your imagination to infer what the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is."

Paul Vigna : "Regulators, the federal Reserve, [and] the banking system, need to understand this is a thing that they have to take seriously.

Jeffrey Tucker : This is going to change the economic culture."

[43:04] Nicholus Gruen : "Bitcoin could be a micro-economic miracle worker, and it could be a macro-economic wrecking ball."

John Barrett : Is Bitcoin the currency of the future? A godsend for criminals? Or a recipe for financial disaster? If you trust your money just as it is we have a little story to share.